Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

I voted to remain but if there is ever another referendum I'm voting leave without hesitation. Democracy should never be undermined. The terrible consequences will last for generations. Not only will the country be divided for generations, people will feel disenfranchised, lose faith in democracy and the way will be blown wide open for parties on the extreme ends of the spectrum. Labour and Conservatives would be decimated at the polls and far right parties will thrive as people stay away or vote against the two main parties.

Be careful what you wish for. A second referendum would be the beginning of the end for the UK. That's the thing with democracy. Mess with it and the consequences will be grim.

I do take the point about sovereignty. What amuses me though is that the UK had loads of colonies in the past and now its a colony of the EU. The coloniser is now a colony. I'm not from the UK so don't feel strongly about this. I do however feel strongly about democracy.

Still no opinion on whether NI should join Schengen?

Well the UK isn't part of Schengen so unless NI breaks away I'm guessing it will be difficult? I have no opinion. If the NI people choose to join that's up to them.

You don't appear to like the Tories? me an you both! unfortunately brexit lets the Cons of the hook for all the shite they've caused.

Can you tell? Sadly, the Tories will be let off the hook regardless. They've not been held to account so far have they?

Democracy didn't end in June 2016. This country will be divided for a generation regardless of what happens now. The damage is done.

Our laws, affecting the whole of the UK, are being made by MPs who I didn't vote for because they're in Wales or NI or Scotland (and in fact I voted for only ONE MP!). Our laws, affecting the whole of the UK, are being held to ransom by the DUP over who are being paid £1 billion for the privilege.

It isn't democracy, I agree. The same as Scottish MPs voting on English matters but not the other way round.

The only consolation is that we can unelect these MPs every 5 years.

The problem with the EU is that no one will say stop. They all just go along with it, because we are just in too deep.

By the way, it is nonsense to compare the UK Parliament with the EU Commission. One represent the will of the UK, the other does not. It is that simple.

I benefit hugely from being part of the EU but let's get real. The EU is not democratic by any stretch of the imagination. It is a superstate. It constantly gives itself new powers without the approval of 'the people'. It started off as one thing and has become a completely different thing.

The EU is a great idea but the officials are out of touch and losing the support of the people in different countries. Personally I don't think the EU will last for very long.

Interestingly, while the youth in the UK may favour the EU, the youth in France are against it. The fact that the youth in different EU countries feel differently about the EU is conveniently hidden but make no mistakes, the EU project is facing a fight for its future and I am not confident it will win.

I looked at the big wigs and they are all white middle-aged men. Another problem that exposes how out of touch that institution is.

weightsandmeasures

The country is massively divided anyway. When Brexit is a total shitshow and many of the people who voted for leave are the ones to bear the brunt of it, there’ll be big trouble.

There is no good outcome.

The events of this afternoon demonstrate quite comprehensively that the UK parliament does not represent the "will of the UK" if there even was a singular "will of the UK".

The country is divided now because some people, especially those who appointed themselves as more I telligent and knowledgeable can't accept the decision of the majority. It hurt, yes. Just like how it did when Donald Trump won but that's democracy. Everyone's vote counts. Not just the votes of those who think they know best.

@Weetabixandshreddies

No, I’m asking you which rules are you concerned about? That we’ve lost sovereignty over...

Please answer. And tell me why they’re Aug a big issue.

The EU deals in things like trade and human rights.

Not everything covered by UK law.

Your quick google - you should have read further. Being as tall as nelsons column means nothing without context.

The country is divided now because some people... can't accept the decision of the majority

AKA democracy has ended for the losers.

Personally I think we need a referendum on the terms of a leave deal.

The referendum wasn’t legally binding

So why are we acting like it was?

The will of the people in the UK is represented through democracy. At elections, it is First Past the Post. In the referendum the concept was the same. A simple majority. No where is it ever expected and has EVER been expected that the "will of the people" is the same as unanimity. It is ridiculous to suggest that there is or has ever been a "singular will of the people" (ie, a unanimous decision) . Nothing would ever get done if such a thing was expected.

Problem with this 'will of the people' nonsense is that the people are split down the middle on this. 51.9 (of those who voted, not even the entire electorate) is not a big enough margin to to justify a change of this magnitude. Even as a state we are split with two countries voting our and two voting in. What a mess.

Believeitornot

Please stop @ing me. My inbox is full of emails from mumsnet. I am here, it's unnecessary.

I don't know all of the laws. Any laws are too many - how can you think it's ok for other countries to pass a law that the UK has to adopt? Does that not bother you?

It’s not as simple as that re democracy. To say the electorate can’t change their mind would be hugely in democratic.

Plus we are a parliamentary democracy, an equally valid form of democracy as a referendum.

The truth is there should never have been a referendum, people could have goes UKIP if leaving the EU was that important to them. It’s too late for that now of course, and people who voted leave had a legitimate expectation that we would do so. It’s a total mess.

I actually don’t want a second referendum. We are a parliamentary democracy and parliament should make the decision.

The will of the people in the UK is represented through democracy

A Referendum isn’t a binding vote.

Is that democratic?

What about we leave the EU then in five years we ask again if we should re join?

believeitornot it wasn’t legally binding but it was politically binding I think

No where is it ever expected and has EVER been expected that the "will of the people" is the same as unanimity

How does that square with "horrible Remoaners not accepting the decision so single-handedly causing division which is baaaaaaad"? On the one hand it is unreasonable to expect unanimity, but on the other the losing side should effectively cease to have a voice?

don't know all of the laws. Any laws are too many - how can you think it's ok for other countries to pass a law that the UK has to adopt? Does that not bother you?

No. Because I know that the EU laws relate to matters of trade, human rights, things relating to workers rights, immigration etc. Laws relating to being part of the EU. They don’t cover everything.

So no, it doesn’t concern me.

The referendum wasn’t legally binding

Also if it was legally binding it would have been declared void because of the illegality around the Leave campaign.

Believeitornot

DC said it would be i guess?

I understand that but things have moved on, the leave manifesto has been found to be false and folk should be allowed to re consider based on the what Leave will mean.

If they still want to leave, fair enough.

And I’m not concerned because I know that theUK does have discretion in some areas of EU law. And the UK has a top table at negotiating EU laws.

Now we make ourselves outsiders.

Whether the referendum is legally binding or not is besides the point. The vote was given to the people. They were told the verdict would be respected. It is the height of arrogance for those appointing themselves as "we know best" to unilaterally overturn the vote. The UK would be a laughing stock and would lose all moral authority to lecture other countries about democracy.

I would support a referendum on the terms of the deal. That makes sense but remain cannot he an option. It has to he an option between May's deal or no deal.

The UK would be a laughing stock and would lose all moral authority to lecture other countries about democracy.

After today's events, that's ironic.