Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

And your solution?

I lost, remember? "No good moaning now" right? It's not my responsibility for my delicate ikkle brain because I didn't vote for it and that makes me a victim who should have everything done for me!

Anyway, didn't you say it wasn't your responsibility to do or think anything, in boththe situation where your vote lost AND the situation where your vote won?

Weetabix Not when you are 1 dissenting voice out of 27 others. Can't believe we have ever had an absolute power of veto.

I want to pick up on this point. We certainly did have an absolute power of veto. The formation of an EU army would require a unanimous vote - some EU laws get through on a majority; this one would require unanimity. read about it here if you wish

It really bothers me that this sort of misinformation gains traction and goes unchallenged and that people base their votes on lies.

{Yes you do. And in most clubs you can simply leave if you don't want to stay - apart from this one where they pull you in so deep that it's virtually impossible to leave.}
The UK was at the 'top table' and instrumental in making many of the rules. It would probably have had even more influence if there weren't so many 'naysayers' like Weetabix continually whinging.

{Look back in history - the more powerful dominate the least powerful. Money is power. Who has money in the EU and who doesn't?}
The UK HAD. It is disappearing fast thanks to the likes of Weetabix. Great job!

So, which areas of lost sovereignty are you most concerned with...

Well, first and foremost, the joining of this "club" with those "rules" that we, the people never agreed to join or sign up for.

Well, first and foremost, the joining of this "club" with those "rules" that we, the people never agreed to join or sign up for

Such as.

"Why weren't We The People consulted on PQRS aspect of the EU in the past? Outrageous therefore Brexit so We The People can be Heard!!!"

"OK, so what is your view on XYZ of Brexit going forward?"

"No idea, it's somebody else's problem, the lovely delicate brains of The People mustn't be bothered with grubby boring details."

1tisILeClerc

Yes. All my fault. Brexit. Collapse of the banks. Austerity. Losing the world cup. All me.

Little ol' me, all on my own.

Do hope none of you have ever voted Conservative?

Do hope none of you have ever voted Conservative

Nope.

So, tell me more about the loss of sovereignty

@Weetabixandshreddies

So, do you think you're going to have a vote on the rules of every trade deal that we sign after we leave?

If you don't get to vote on them, that means we aren't a sovereign country?

And I thought you wanted someone else to solve the Irish border problem, and that solving it is nothing to do with you? Isn't that a loss of sovereignty?

{Well, first and foremost, the joining of this "club" with those "rules" that we, the people never agreed to join or sign up for.}

Which part of 'the UK was party to the writing of the rules' are you struggling with?
On top of that, if the rules as proposed or discussed by the UK grew and had aspects the UK didn't like it STILL had a veto to modify it for 'UK ' use. Countries joining later don't even get the 'luxury' of a veto.

It is the fault of DC for starting it. It's the fault of the Tories for egging it on. It is the fault of Leave voters for voting for it. It's the fault of Labour for not addressing genuine concerns with an electable leader.
If you are any of those you can consider yourself to blame.

Every EU treaty has been negotiated by our elected governments. Many of the treaties have been voted on by our sovereign parliament.

We, the people, are represented by our elected members of parliament.

Parliament agree and negotiated our membership to this 'club'.

How can our elected parliament 'undemocratically' sign us up to something? That is an oxymoron.

{Yes. All my fault. Brexit. Collapse of the banks. Austerity. Losing the world cup. All me.}
I am glad you appreciate it. Now apologise for it.

Believeitornot

Such as, that's your answer all the time " they are the rules of this club".

But we, the people, never agreed to join the club or abide by the rules.

And a quick Google tells you that the EU laws are as tall as Nelson's column so how can any of us know what all of those laws are? It doesn't matter to me. Our laws should be made by our politicians, you know, the ones that we get to elect every 5 years. Not politicians from other countries over whom we have no control. We have 70 odd MEPs. That's all that we can influence.

So, do you think you're going to have a vote on the rules of every trade deal that we sign after we leave?
No but we elect, directly, the politicians who do. We only elect our 70 odd MEPs. We have no control over all the others.

Countries joining later don't even get the 'luxury' of a veto.

Oh and my saying it's heading towards a dictatorship was poo pooed as being paranoid.

@Weetabixandshreddies

You've no need to know what most of the laws are.

The vast majority of them are about aligning standards of imported/exported goods amongst 27 different nations and have nothing to do with you at all.

Are you claiming to know every single law passed in Britain itself, and which apply to you?

Of course you don't. There are thousands of British laws too. Strawman argument.

Name an EU law that you think is bad and that we couldn't have vetoed.

We only elect our 70 odd MEPs. We have no control over all the others.

Sorry, you want control over MEPs of other sovereign nations? Wouldn't that be like, nitroglycerine for Leavers if it was suggested that other countries should have control over UK MEPs?

Yes we did agree to join the club, our elected representatives voted several times on the matter.

Our elected representatives negotiated, debated and voted.

That is how our democracy works.

We only elect our 70 odd MEPs.

The vast majority of the country didn't vote for a government to be propped up by the DUP. I imagine alot of people didn't even know who they DUP were before last year.

Moussemoose

And now the people have said "enough".

Sorry, you want control over MEPs of other sovereign nations?
No I don't want control over them. But our laws, affecting this country, are being made by MEPs over whom we have no power.

How is that democracy?

@Weetabixandshreddies

Which laws? Name a few if there are so many that negatively affect this country.

@Weetabixandshreddies

Still no opinion on whether NI should join Schengen?

You don't appear to like the Tories? me an you both! unfortunately brexit lets the Cons of the hook for all the shite they've caused.

Our laws, affecting the whole of the UK, are being made by MPs who I didn't vote for because they're in Wales or NI or Scotland (and in fact I voted for only ONE MP!). Our laws, affecting the whole of the UK, are being held to ransom by the DUP over who are being paid £1 billion for the privilege.

How is that democracy?