Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

I think a true patriotic real Leave supporter would be offering their obvious considerable skills and depths of understanding of the issues to the government, who are clearly in desperate need at this stage. Instead, we have this supposed fervent Leaver going "waaah I'm a victim" and "I'm completely helpless like a stranded jellyfish at low tide" and "it's somebody else's responsibility" - not very patriotic or doughty is it?

And maybe if the politicians got their act together, stopped trying to score points and stab each other in the back and actually got a firm deal together then the financial markets would settle down.

If the always knew that this was going to be such a disaster why did David Cameron ever offer a referendum in the first place? If we had never been offered it then we wouldn't even be here would we? So basically, anyone who voted Cameron's government back in after the promise of a referendum is to blame. Any conservative voters here?

(and that wasn't me because I've never voted Tory in my life).

Would Weetabix be that 'victim' that is happy to be part of the increase in unnecessary deaths due to NHS staff shortages that have already resulted from Brexit, and that fact that it will get worse unless some proper negotiations take place.
I voted to remain, why is MY vote not being respected?

I thought you were going to give some intelligent reasoned arguments. Turns out it is the same old same old.

As opposed to all of your pearls of wisdom do you mean?

@weetabix

Sorry, but you're wrong on Switzerland. There is a hard border:

https://www.ft.com/content/2d30482c-da7e-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

"Switzerland is part of the EU’s Schengen area, so there are no passport checks required for entry. For food and almost all tradeable industrial and agricultural goods, Switzerland’s regulations are also fully aligned with those of the EU. Both sides accept the others’ regulations. In reality, the Swiss copy and paste Brussels regulations into their domestic laws, allowing the landlocked state effectively to be a member of the EU single market for goods.

Border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary, however, because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border with sometimes significant delays"

why is MY vote not being respected?

Because more people voted against your wishes. You can't please everyone, so the majority view has to prevail.

I voted to remain, why is MY vote not being respected?

Erm for the same reason that my vote for labour in the last general election isn't being respected. Not enough people voted to remain - maybe remainers should have mounted a better campaign and done a better job of explaining what Brexit would look like?

And maybe if the politicians got their act together, stopped trying to score points and stab each other in the back and actually got a firm deal together then the financial markets would settle down

Sorry but no. Just no.

Leaving the EU is a mess because of the significant consequences.

And as for David Cameron calling a referendum - he was pandering to the idiots in his party.

Do you remember “Project Fear”......?? The shouts from those on the side of Brexit toward those that said it would be madness to leave...

It was all there before the referendum. We knew it would be a folly.

And it is. Yet the sounds were there.

So why did you vote leave when the warnings were there 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Can we have that one about how ghastly and revolting it is that the sovereign members of Schengen have sovereignly decided not to have border controls, how very dare they, and therefore the UK who are not members of Schengen must have Brexit?

You can't please everyone, so the majority view has to prevail

There wasn’t a majority view on what Brexit to adopt.....

No one actually knows that leave meant in 2016.

*what

{And maybe if the politicians got their act together, stopped trying to score points and stab each other in the back and actually got a firm deal together then the financial markets would settle down.}
You obviously haven't got a clue what you are saying.
Unicorns don't exist, there is NO super trading deal that is going to be better than what the UK had with the EU. I say had because a shitload of money has already been spent on this farce, around double the £350Million a week on that bus. So not only is the Gov not spending that on the NHS it is spending it again on dragging out a ridiculous course into near oblivion.

Sorry, but you're wrong on Switzerland. There is a hard border:

And sorry but you are wrong. I've driven backwards and forwards across the French/Swiss border, at different points countless times.

Never been manned. No customs or passport checks. Not one, ever in the last 10 years.

done a better job of explaining what Brexit would look like?

I believe it was decried as "Project Fear".

But, unsurprisingly, not being told hard enough by the opposition is also offered as evidence of Leavers' victimhood.

If anything, politicians are dragging this out because they know it’s a mess and don’t want to rush into a deal....

Politicians usually go for a quick fix.

Funnily enough there isn’t one.

Leaving apparently is everybody else's responsibility - apart from actual leavers, that is. None of whom have the first clue about how to do it, but are in the very front row bitching, whining and complaining relentlessly.

And I include Rees-Mogg, Johnson, et al, in that.

You couldn't make it up. They didn't care that there was no inkling of a plan when they voted, and they have no suggestions as to how to practically manage Brexit now that push has come to shove. But they expect Remainers, of all people, to sort it out for them.

And yes, I absolutely did mean to be so rude about how monumentally gullible and incompetent they are.

And sorry but you are wrong. I've driven backwards and forwards across the French/Swiss border, at different points countless times

I had to show mine when I went to Geneva from France.

Anyway, what has that to do with the UK? You have to show a passport to enter the EU from the UK and vice versa.

And as for David Cameron calling a referendum - he was pandering to the idiots in his party.

Exactly.

And I voted leave for the reasons that I have already stated - I do not want to be part of the United States of Europe, which is where I believe we are headed if we stay in. None of you agree - fine. That is why you voted to remain - great.

I’ve been to Geneva by train from France. We had our passports checked and had to go through customs before leaving the station.

And as for David Cameron calling a referendum - he was pandering to the idiots in his party.

He had to do something to stop UKIP taking an ever bigger number of seats. Had he not promised a referendum, it may well have resulted in another hung Parliament with a Tory/UKIP coalition. Both Labour and Tory were losing votes to UKIP. After the Libdem coalition fiasco, no one would have wanted similar again.

I've driven backwards and forwards across the French/Swiss border, at different points countless times

Likewise, but never been stopped at any border nor asked for passports etc. Every time, just driven straight in and out without stopping.

I do not want to be part of the United States of Europe, which is where I believe we are headed if we stay in

Er.... but we werent.

He had to do something to stop UKIP taking an ever bigger number of seats

Er..... UKIP like many smaller parties are screwed by our voting system. We don’t have proportional representation.

The issue is that we have the rich getting richer. That’s why we are screwed. It’s not the EU that’s the problem, it’s the out of control capitalism where the balance has tipped too far to the “haves”.

Because the Swiss are in Schengen.

@weetabix

Read the quote, it clearly addressed passport checks:

"Switzerland is part of the EU’s Schengen area, so there are no passport checks required for entry."

The hard border infrastructure is there because:

"Border infrastructure and customs declarations are necessary, however, because Switzerland is not part of the EU’s customs union or value added tax regime, which are separate from the single market. This difference requires both sides to build and staff a hard border with sometimes significant delays"

Whether you've seen the infrastructure manned in your own personal experience is beyond irrelevant.

The Good Friday agreement states no hard border. Full fucking stop.

Not, oh well you can have a few hard border type things as long as you don't see anyone around when you periodically cross it...

But, unsurprisingly, not being told hard enough by the opposition is also offered as evidence of Leavers' victimhood.

I'm not claiming to be a victim. I am glad that we are leaving.

I'm saying to all of the remainers - claiming that leavers were ignorant and should have known what they were voting for - that why didn't the remain campaign do a better job of educating people then? I didn't see any real information, from either side, in the run up to the referendum. Both sides were too happy attacking each other and scoring points to actually distribute proper information.

No good moaning now that it didn't go your way.