Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

Yeah, we've heard it all before.

I think this is the worst of it all. It’s utterly senseless. As a remainer I’m told over and over to understand why people voted to leave and when I try to, I get nowhere. 2.5 years I’ve been asking for actual answers that are fact based. There aren’t any, are there

No, and I can easily understand how cults rise because of the attitudes on threads like these. Humans can be amazingly easily led can't they?

Humans can be amazingly easily led can't they?

And the predictable repeating pattern is scary.

If you tell a lie often enough it becomes true.

There aren’t any, are there sad

There are reasons, just none that you consider acceptable.

Just as I don't agree with the reasons for remaining.

Weetabix,

There are none that are rational and supported by evidence.

I would have said that those are fairly minimal requirements for acceptability of such a major decision?

cantkeepawayforever
Oh righto.

Maybe they should have only allowed certain people to vote then?

Maybe we could bring that in for all elections? Only people guaranteed to vote in a certain way to be allowed to vote?

You say that there are rational reasons, fully supported by evidence (ie evidence that the issue in question has been created by the EU, not by the UK government's / others' decisions), that support the Leave position.

Could you give that evidence?

I don't mean 'oh, in the future x might happen'. By evidence, I mean 'x is happening at the moment, because of the EU and not because of UK government decisions, and the only way to sort this out is to leave'.

I would hope that everyone who votes in all elections takes the decision seriously, making rational decisions using credible evidence. Wouldn't you?

I would hope that everyone who votes in all elections takes the decision seriously, making rational decisions using credible evidence. Wouldn't you?

Yes you would hope so however I doubt many do. After all, how can anyone give credible evidence for how the Conservatives are good for the country?

So did you, or did you not, vote in the referendum rationally, using credible evidence? If some of the evidence that you chose is no longer credible, how has this changed your views?

cantkeepawayforever

Did you vote in the referendum using credible evidence?

If so, what evidence did you use?

I keep thinking that one morning I'll wake up to hear the delightful news that the PM, MP's, Parliament and the Cabinet will finally acknowledge what NON-BINDING & ADVISORY actually mean, and confirm that we are indeed governed by a parliamentary democracy. And act as a parliamentary democracy should.

* I keep hoping I'll wake up to the* news that the PM, MP's, Parliament and the Cabinet will finally acknowledge what NON-BINDING & ADVISORY actually mean, and confirm that we are indeed governed by a parliamentary democracy.
*
*
And an acknowledgement that the will of the people has changed. Because it so has.

(Here's a reminder for several posters that their ' vast ' majority wasn't ever as conclusive as their posts (and the PM) have suggested anyway.

Here's the evidence I used to vote Remain:
The GFA depends on our both being EU members-I'm half Irish so this has never been a fringe issue for me.
I know how the Just In Time food distribution network works and how fragile it is. I also know how much mayhem a little bit of snow causes so want to avoid national chaos.
My sibling's job depends on being an EU citizen. Luckily he, like me, can have an Irish passport so he's gone that route.
I want FOM for my daughter. Luckily, she is entitled to get on the Foreign Births Register so she will be an Irish citizen too.
There's my unicorns for you.

@Weetabixandshreddies

And what’s your evidence? Or fact based reasons? I’ve read the whole thread and heard about “Romanians”, “EU students getting free university”, you being able to roam freely across Europe (neglecting the fact the same doesn’t apply to entering the UK), blue passports.....

What sources did you read to make your vote?

Don't be silly you know Brexit voters don't have to provide evidence.

Looks like the European Court of Justice has confirmed that the UK can stay in the EU if the UK wants to.
Looks like we may just stay after all...

@BlueJag . Doesn't mean we will stay. Just means the ridiculous argument about not being able to stay on the same terms is destroyed.
We are still leaving unless Parliament deems otherwise. With any luck it won't be the catastrophe of no Deal.

Also fed up with French and Spanish companies owning our railways, telecoms, electricity companies. Re nationalise and let us run and own our own infrastructure.

One of the few things I agree with you on wheetabix

I don't understand the logic:
UK state owned industries = bad,
Foreign state owned industries = good.

Although Chiltern Railways are good and are run by DB, but then the profit goes back to Germany and doesn't come back to the UK. I can't say whether the other Train operating companies are good, although when we took the east coast line back into state ownership after private ownership had messed it up, it was well run. Now it's well run it has to be privatised again, because privatisation = good.

bellinisurge

Your list of reasons aren't evidence - they are reasons personal to you

"My sibling's job depends on being an EU citizen. "

"I want FOM for my daughter"

How is that evidence?

I don't want FOM.
I don't want a European parliament being able to dictate laws or trade rules on us
I don't want to be part of a European army
I don't want to be led ever deeper into a failing economic system.

Had the remainers stated that if we voted remain then they would pull back from Europe, not got more deeply embedded, stand up for the UK more then maybe I could have been persuaded to stay.

But I can't see us not going all in if we were to stay and it was made very clear that this was a once in a lifetime vote. If we didn't vote leave then we wouldn't get another chance.

The politicians who have got us here have mucked up - they mucked up by tying us in to the EU with no fair exit plan, they've mucked up negotiations and they are mucking up the future after Brexit.

Which is why I put those reasons after my concerns about GFA and Just in Time.
But, hey, ignore the difficult stuff.

Weetabix how do you feel about the Government and their use of non disclosure agreements on industries that will be effected by Brexit ? These are not being used for national security purposes, all the other 27 EU countries are more than aware of the impacts on these industries in the UK , so it cannot be argued that it has anything to do with negotiations. The only other reason that I can think of, is to keep the UK population in the dark with regards to the actual implications, impact and cost. Unless you can think of another reason ?

Which is why I put those reasons after my concerns about GFA and Just in Time.
But, hey, ignore the difficult stuff.

I'm not ignoring anything. The EU and UK say they are committed to maintaining the GFA.

Just in time - companies will adjust how they work.

These aren't examples of evidence. They are concerns that you have. The same as I have concerns if we remain.

"I don't want a European parliament being able to dictate laws or trade rules on us"

That's going to happen anyway, UK companies will have to comply with EU standards to export there. So most of our agriculture and manufacturing will stay under EU laws and trade rules.

"I don't want to be part of a European army"

Would never have happened with the UK in the EU, and still isn't going to happen now. There may be greater cooperation between countries.

"I don't want to be led ever deeper into a failing economic system."

Cameron negotiated exemption from even closer union, and we aren't part of the eurozone.

So yeah, your reasons are spurious rubbish.

frumpety

We aren't being told the facts about anything. They haven't revealed their legal advice either.

We were asked to choose. We weren't privvy (as parliament still isn't) to all of the legal advice, implications etc. We had to make a choice based on what info there was available.

That is what the electorate did. You don't agree with the result.

Interesting how many posters on here have dual citizenship etc. They have a vested interest in us remaining. I don't want to leave the UK or to be able to live in Europe. I made my choice accordingly as you all made your choices.