Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

My husband's company won't allow him to opt out.
So that’s the company’s fault, not the EUs fault.

Lack of investment in opportunities I’ve already addressed. That won’t change. It certainly won’t change if our economy sinks. It definitely won’t change if we need to export anything seriously cheaply to compete as global traders.

Lack of trade jobs - same as above, we don’t train people the way we used to. That’s our fault, not the EUs fault.

{Lack of trade jobs because of cheaper trades coming from Eastern Europe, able to work for lower wages and therefore driving down wages}
It's called karma. The UK has been very happy to exploit workers for centuries.
Yes I would agree that there needs to be a massive global 'rethink' on work and leisure time and pay as has always been the case, many work for too long hours for low pay, and some get a ridiculous amount of pay for minimal hours. The bad news is that however hard you stamp your feet it probably isn't going to happen, so you have to do the best with what you have got. There are plans by some Tories to scrap working time directives so you can be happy when that comes through.

So who introduced the European work time directive if it wasn't the EU?

His company chooses to abide by it. It wasn't thought up by them.

So not being allowed to work more than 48 hours a week is the only bad thing you can think of
and actually its because his employer chooses not to

How is it the only reason I can think of when I wrote a list of things that I can think of off the top of my head?

That's because the job has been de valued over time. If we had to train our own nurses they would have to make it a more attractive proposition

We will get nurses from across the globe in future, nothing will change.

The NHS is doing it right now.

Your husbands company is acting illegally. He can opt out if he wants to.

The EU can not be held responsible for employers acting outside the law!

Germany manages to invest in its own people.

The EU can not be blamed because U.K. governments and employers are crap!

This is the thing though isn’t it - these things can all be resolved while we are also members of the EU. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Yes they introduced the EWTD but there’s an opt out. Your problem isn’t with the EWTD, the problem is the company won’t offer the opt out.

We cannot look at that without also accounting for the fact that it prevents people from being worked to the bone. On balance, that’s a good thing.

The EU can not be blamed because U.K. governments and employers are crap!

Another reason I voted to remain. I simply don’t trust our self serving politicians to look after our ordinary citizens.

@Weetabixandshreddies

All your arguments have some merit, however, the fallacy is that you think that our politicians and businesses will change any time soon.

We ve an electorate that always vote for low taxes over anything else and you solutions will cost business and public services a lot of money, so that means more taxes and higher prices.

U.K. employers want to overwork employees. They want zero hours contracts, they want to lose all those pesky H&S regulations.

I want to remain and keep all that red tape, the red tape that saves lives.

I’m finding this thread gob smacking hilarious.

So a leaver is basically missing the point that the UK government has the power to end austerity and didn’t need to start it in the first place, could have given us blue passports etc. But blames it on the EU.

I worked in the public sector and was asked if I wanted to opt out of the EU working hours directive so very much doubt it’s the big bad EU making her husband’s company stick to it.

As for voting for our own personal benefit - well why would you vote to negatively affect yourself as an individual? People vote for themselves and to benefit others in case they end up in a bad situation.

Leave voters never fail to stun me in their consistent blaming of everyone else. I guess it stacks up with the idea that everything is the fault of the EU

This is the thing though isn’t it - these things can all be resolved while we are also members of the EU. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Then why haven't they been doing them? People in the UK are fed up with what has been happening. They have seen the chance to do something different. If UK governments could have done it differently but didn't then they are to blame for where we are now.

Your husbands company is acting illegally. He can opt out if he wants to.

They allow them to opt out of some but not all. They average over 13 weeks and then stop them if their average over the 13 weeks breaches the work time directive.

The EU can not be blamed because U.K. governments and employers are crap!

Maybe they are to blame, maybe not. If it is the fault of the UK government it won't improve simply because we remain in the EU will it as PPs have claimed.

If UK governments could have done it differently but didn't then they are to blame for where we are now

What makes you think leaving the EU will make that any better. It won’t.

If it is the fault of the UK government it won't improve simply because we remain in the EU
And it will DEFINITELY get worse if we leave.

Rees Mogg is on the record multiple times saying he wants to remove employment protections to allow more profits for bosses

Rees mogg is on the record wanting the removal of environmental legislation t allow bosses to make more money

Brexit will make it worse, not better

It might not improve if we stay in the EU but staying in the EU is likely to prevent it getting even worse!

If people are fed up with the UK government, they need to deal with the UK government; not pull us out of the EU and hope the UK government treats us better. They won’t. We’ll be entirely at the mercy of people like May and Raab and Davis and bloody Rees Mogg who literally don’t give a shit about normal people.

Surely you can see that

So, if all of my reasons for leaving are actually down to the UK government give me ways in which life will be better if we remain? Because, if as you insist, nothing is the fault of the EU and the UK gov has complete control over us how can the EU possibly make things better unless they can compel the UK to comply, which you say they can't.

give me ways in which life will be better if we remain?
I did at 19:22 and 19:28
re read what I posted

Tax avoidance regulation changes
Climate change regulations
Employment rights improvements
Making the Tech giants pay tax

all that pesky red tape that the Brexit bosses want to avoide

We can opt out of some aspects of the EWTD because the U.K. negotiated it. Other EU countries don't.

It is entirely and absolute the fault of U.K. governments. If we were committed to the EU this wouldn't happen. This is not a 'maybe' this is completely the fault of U.K. governments.

Yes U.K. governments are to blame for where we are now - NOT THE EU.

So, if all of my reasons for leaving are actually down to the UK government give me ways in which life will be better if we remain?

It’ll be worse if we leave. If we were staying, we should be focusing on pushing our politicians to stop fucking about. People need to be more politically active but they don’t know how. Leaving the EU is frustrating because a lot of shouting goes on on twitter etc etc but people need to be writing to their MPs and joining political parties.

The EU has become a massive bogeyman, a way to divert attention and avoid blame.

The issues over the last few decades stem from the fact that we’ve just not properly invested in our whole population. Instead there’s been passive acceptance of the rich getting richer, hoping/assuming it’ll trickle down. When it didn’t , the EU was an easy target to blame, people like sound bites and don’t bother to find out more.

Better than leaving?

Our economy will grow instead of shrink
We will keep the workers protections
We won’t be at the mercy of the WTO (seriously, read the link I put up before. You think Brussels is bad, Geneva is worse)
We retain the benefits of the numerous free trade agreements
We retain access to terrorism intelligence
We don’t end up with Dover gridlocked and all that entails

What we could also have is a proper discussion about what people like and don’t like - the actual things. I agree with you about investing more in our country and in our people. I actually think we need to rediscover British pride in a way that isn’t xenophobic - we have lost that and it’s a legitimate concern.

As much as I am happy with free movement (I’d actually prefer to be part of the schengen area) I think we should utilise our immigration controls and the other controls we have that would give us more say about how the UK is run but we currently choose not to.

It would be a crying shame to leave only to realise that not of the alleged benefits materialised because they actually werent the fault of the EU in the first place.

The tax avoidance point is really important. Doesn’t it drive you mad to hear about Amazon, Google et al skipping their tax duties? The EU want to end that. Rees Mogg wants more of it!

It might not get better if we stay but it sure as fuck will get worse if we leave.

The EU throws a fig leaf of respectability over our employment laws. JRM, NF and BJ have been clear they want a bonfire of regulations. They want to get rid of the legislation and red tape that saves lives.

Remaining won't make life better but it will stop it from getting much, much worse.

As has been said time and again, the extreme left and right want Brexit because they believe it will cause a social crisis that will enable them to introduce 'radical' new laws.

Talkinpeece

I did read your list and responded.

But I say again, they aren't, according to people on here, specific to EU membership. The UK government could already have been doing it and it hasn't been. Belonging to the EU hasn't compelled the UK government to do it so nothing will change if we remain will it?

Tell me how remaining will change or improve things from how they are now?

We need to be more politically active as a nation. My generation don’t seem to be at all. My parents generation had the poll tax riots, the strikes and so on. The generation beneath me seem to use their voice but us in the middle seem to be passive.

I don’t think people are saying for certain that things will get better than how they are now. What we are saying is that leaving will, without doubt, make things worse.

Neutral (what we have now) is better than worse (leaving).

Actually seeing the list of EU benefits, it’s likely that (while we won’t get a utopia) things will continue to improve on our current situation (neutral) through such things as tax avoidance being banned, through continued involvement in scientific research, through continued access to global markets etc.

Your argument seems to be that because the UK government is shit we should leave the EU (who aren’t responsible) because the EU isn’t giving us a utopia, all the while ignoring that the UK government is literally poised to screw over UK citizens for their own gain.