Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

or where we could train our own workers.

Yes, where we could train our own workers, we will still seek to bring in workers from other countries.

Yes and my point is that being in the EU hasn't protected UK workers so why say that remaining in the UK will give increased protection to workers?

This is wholly wrong.

{How many years have we had austerity now? Why will continuing end austerity when under membership we have had austerity?}

Austerity has nothing to do with the EU, it is entirely down to the UK government and Chancellor of the exchequer.

{Increased employment rights - like zero hours contracts, brought in under EU membership?}
The EU has only limited powers in this. Mainly down to UK government.

{And finally Erasmus - doesn't apply to me.}
So you happily bugger it up for others, Nice! I COULD (but aren't) say (ing) that as I don't need sanpro it should be taxed at 50% because there is too much plastic involved and it damages the environment.

{You have to recognise that for many people EU membership hasn't shown us great benefits.}
There is so much that the EU has and is doing that is 'invisible' such as clean beaches, reduction in ozone depleting chemicals, a myriad of small but often significant things that make life a good deal better.

MissMalice

I am not blaming the EU for austerity or zero hours contracts. Read what I am saying.

A PP said that remaining will end austerity - how come? It hasn't so far - and will improve workers rights - well, membership hasn't stopped exploiting workers on zero hours contracts has it?

Things have been bad under membership. Why will it all suddenly improve if we remain? Why will it not continue as it has ie rubbish for many of us?

or where we could train our own workers

No reason at all why we can't continue "importing" workers with required skills/experience, just like we already do from outside the EU. I read, eg, that the NHS has more immigrant staff from outside the EU than from other EU countries - why would that change? If we're short of a particular skill, then we'd still be able to allow immigrants who have that skill, wherever they may come from.

So because membership hasn’t been 100% perfect you’re happy to throw away not just any benefits you get but any benefits that anybody in the entire country gets. Okay.

Remaining allows our economy to stabilise and grow after the last 10+ years of hardship. We are finally coming to a point where we can come out of austerity and your vote is going to plunge us back into hardship.

Why will it all suddenly improve if we remain?
It might not
but it will certainly get worse if we leave.

@Weetabixandshreddies
Why do you think operating under WTO rules will make things better for the UK ?

Thing is, when our economy is hammered by no deal and the fabric of our society is dented by the consequences of having to sort it out, it's going to be a while before we get get all these magical training programmes in place. If we accept TM Withdrawal Agreement we might be able to put ourselves back on track because we'll have a transition period.

{A PP said that remaining will end austerity}
Remaining, which will reduce the risk of the UK economy crashing will in turn enable the UK government to put an end to austerity IF THE UK GOVERNMENT wants to.
No sign of that so far, and leaving will damage the UK economy significantly, making austerity reduction a very low priority.

Unemployment in the UK is at historic lows.

Yes with people under employed or on zero hours contracts. Explain to those people how they are better off than being unemployed.

Why is it better for us to import say nurses from the EU than to train our own school leavers to be nurses? It's better to send our own school leavers into zero hour jobs than to pay to train them to be nurses, or any other jobs that we import people in for?

Ask yourself why do so many nurses from the EU come here to work? There must be benefits to them coming here (unless we are seen as a 3rd world country where they come for altruistic purposes). We have much to offer and to be proud of.

You continue to blame the EU for things they aren’t responsible for, Weetabix. Membership hasn’t been rubbish for you at all. We don’t live in a utopia. Some of that is because it’s impossible. Some of it is global. Much of it is decisions made by our own government.

How has being a member of the EU specifically put you at any kind of disadvantage?

*The benefits of being able to stand for what we want, to develop policies that benefit us, to train and employ our own citizens rather than import labour from elsewhere, to be free to trade with other countries in the world.....

Sounds v much like the beginning of Star Trek lol!

We sell 18m to China, Germany 87m, even little ole Holland sells 12m (Euros)

We can trade across the globe, take adv of 70 FTA inc the 27 we ve got with the EU, it is us that doesn't make enough of what the world wants that is the problem.
Leaving the EU will just make matters worse as our economy shrinks and we have less money and less access to skilled Labour.

We have much to offer and to be proud of.

As an EU member, yes. As a country that has demonstrated so much arrogance, aggressive and xenophobia throughout this Brexit process, and who will lose so many benefits as a result of leaving the EU, no.

So because membership hasn’t been 100% perfect you’re happy to throw away not just any benefits you get but any benefits that anybody in the entire country gets. Okay.

And conversely a PP listed half a dozen reasons why they want to remain. 3/4 of them directly benefitting them regardless of the fact that other people are worse off because of them.

So I have to vote for the benefit of others but some of you can vote for selfish reasons? Ok.

Why is it better for us to import say nurses from the EU than to train our own school leavers to be nurses?
DUH !
Do you _really not know the answer to that ???????
FFS
Training nurses costs the taxpayer a lot of money
Importing qualified ones keeps all that money in the kitty

We have much to offer and to be proud of
Oh do give over
The UK has higher average wages than poorer countries
so folks come to the UK to earn money and polish up their English

If, there is rioting in the UK, anything like that which has been seen in Paris and several other French cities, which is a possibility, that could also be exceedingly expensive.
The Violent protestors in France probably only number 20,000 (for a population roughly the same as the UK, but estimates of damage already have got to around £900 million (€1.1Billion) and there is a possibility that it could extend to €10 Billion.
Many of the protestors 'demands' are pretty similar to Brexit although I don't think the 'racist' element is especially large.

So I have to vote for the benefit of others but some of you can vote for selfish reasons? Ok.

Remaining does not negatively affect the country in the same way that leaving does. It’s not remotely comparable. Many of the things listed affect large numbers of the population.

For example, I will vote to remain because it means we’re less likely to have a knackered economy. That benefits me. It also benefits you and everyone else who lives here. That’s not selfish.

btw totally agree on EU nurses BUT again thats our reluctance to want to become nurses etc and expense of training to be a NHS health worker.

My DD has to not only pay for her own student acc but at the same time pay for additional acc at her placement hospital.

Her debt after 3 years will be around 45k for a job that pays 26k in the UK, Fortunately, she has Aussie citizenship and already has job offer nr Sydney, where pay is between 2x to 3x greater for her role.

What’s kind of funny is that by voting to leave (any kind of leave because you couldn’t specify what kind) we’re potentially going to end up stuck with EU rules but have no say in them at all.

I don’t like that. I trust EU laws over our vile Tory government though so I can live with it for a while. But it is pretty funny

-expense of training to be a NHS health worker.

Well indeed, if the UK govt were actually interested in recruiting UK nurses, why cut their bursary so many now can’t afford to train? Also see the thread of the woman training to be a medic but struggling with UC rules. Those in power aren’t there for the good of the people. They’ll screw us workers over any day if it benefits them.

How has being a member of the EU specifically put you at any kind of disadvantage?

EU working time directive - has directly impacted on the number of hours myself and my husband are allowed to work as overtime. I now can't due to ill health. My husband's company won't allow him to opt out.

Lack of investment in opportunities for people in this country - because of a plentiful supply of cheap labour coming in from the EU or skilled workers trained within the EU at no expense to the UK. Cheaper initially but not when you consider the cost to our young people of pushing them into unemployment or low skilled, low paid jobs.

Lack of trade jobs because of cheaper trades coming from Eastern Europe, able to work for lower wages and therefore driving down wages.

JasJas , for your DD, sort of, not that I would want to be a nurse.

For example, I will vote to remain because it means we’re less likely to have a knackered economy. That benefits me. It also benefits you and everyone else who lives here. That’s not selfish.

It is selfish because you are voting because it benefits you. Think about people for whom remaining doesn't benefit them. If you were one of them you wouldn't be so keen to vote for the greater good.

btw totally agree on EU nurses BUT again thats our reluctance to want to become nurses etc and expense of training to be a NHS health worker.

That's because the job has been de valued over time. If we had to train our own nurses they would have to make it a more attractive proposition.

weetabix
has directly impacted on the number of hours myself and my husband are allowed to work as overtime
So not being allowed to work more than 48 hours a week is the only bad thing you can think of
and actually its because his employer chooses not to
Wow

Still no answer on why the WTO will make things better ????