Leave voters? What's your alternative plan for the country if TM's Withdrawal Agreement doesn't get through?

[bellinisurge]

A small majority of people who voted in the referendum voted Leave. I presume they still want to Leave. How do we do that if the Withdrawal Agreement fails and Parliament has voted through an amendment which allows it to stop No Deal.
Talk me through it ...

I presume she means one that doesn’t say EU on the front. Solely British. Blue passport.

I presume she means one that doesn’t say EU on the front. Solely British. Blue passport.

Exactly.

explain to me what the EU looks like if we remain.

• Continuing its focus on social protection
• Maintaining a strong balance towards northern financial economies without the UK the balance will tip to the south
• Maintaining strong pressure on the Middle east and on Trump using the language of business and diplomacy
• Bringing in much stronger controls over offshore finance the real reason many Brexiters want out
• Coordinating military resources to act as a backstop for the UN and NATO
• maintaining London as the financial capital to stand up to Beijing and New York
• clamping down hard on the posted worker rules which are universally unpopular in the western EU
• dealing with labour shortages across the north EU in a coordinated manner
• standing up to Putin and finding alternatives to Russian gas supplies
• reforming the CFP to finally listen to scientists

ie what it really does

And how does that benefit you at all?

You already have a British passport. Because you are a British citizen. I had the old blue one and travelled on it a lot. Queues are quicker with a British passport now we are members of the EU. We could have had a blue one too, you know.

MissMalice
And how does that benefit you at all?

• social protection = employment and womens' rights
• financial economic balance = strong governance = more work for me
• middle east and trump = world peace = reduced chance of armageddon
• offshore finance = increased tax take = reduction in austerity
• military = world peace - see above
• London financial capital = tax take = reduced austerity
• posted worker rules = better incomes for my clients = more money for me
• labour shortages - see above
• putin = world peace - see above

AND
add into the mix that staying in will let DS do Erasmus

So far what I seem to have established, Weetabix, is that coming up with a solution isn’t your problem, you were right to vote however you felt like regardless of the facts, that the problem with the solution is remainers, that it doesn’t matter what the consequences for the country are and you can’t wait to get a blue passport.

Meanwhile the economy is set to shrink by 10%, a hard border in Ireland will lead to violence, millions of people lose all kinds of freedoms, we still need to bring in workers from elsewhere. That’s literally what you voted for.

What are the specific benefits? Not vague concepts like sovereignty. What are the specific benefits to the average UK citizen?

Sorry Talkin my question was to Weetabix about her British passport but thank you for listing those!

I have a Blue passport
it Trumps yours

Maybe none of it definitely directly benefits me. But I still think they are good to have as future opportunities / little guarantees.

DD's job is predicted to experience more labour shortages after Brexit, so she might find getting on the Uni course about 3% easier post-Brexit. That is the sum & total of benefits that will accrue to us from Brexit.

MissMalice
No worries, but it proves the point that remoaners like me KNOW WHAT WE WANTED FROM OUR VOTE

Talkinpeece

So most of the benefits of remaining are personal to you (apart from heading off armageddon).

So you want me to vote to benefit you? Regardless that I won't personally benefit?

How can you not benefit from anything on those lists, Weetabix?!

What are the specific benefits? Not vague concepts like sovereignty. What are the specific benefits to the average UK citizen

The benefits of being able to stand for what we want, to develop policies that benefit us, to train and employ our own citizens rather than import labour from elsewhere, to be free to trade with other countries in the world.

They knew the referendum was coming and they should already have started the process. Their handling of this is terrible and any blame should lay at the door of parliament, not with the voters who voted to leave.

Really? Neither the leavers or remainers thought people would actually vote to leavel, so NO-ONE was prepared. You could argue that the politicians who were promting the leave vote, should have been prepared and should have shared this with the public before the vote. Also, people had a variety of reasons for voting to leavel. Finally, it isn't just about satisifying the leavers, it's also about finding a compromise that would allow the remainers to be ok about it too.

Personally, although I would prefer to stay in, I think TM has got the best deal possible under the circumstances. All the leavers who think she could do better have no grasp of the realities of politics. I hope she wins the vote in parliament, but I suspect we are heading off the cliff into the nightmare land of a hard Brexit.

The benefits of being able to stand for what we want - we already do
to develop policies that benefit us - we already can
to train and employ our own citizens rather than import labour from elsewhere - our government has already said we will relax immigration rules to meet demands for workers. Free movement might end, immigration will not.
to be free to trade with other countries in the world - did you not read the link I put about how the WTO works. It doesn’t look remotely free to me (and that’s before we even begin to look at the hair raising tariffs)

Well we are currently in the EU.

How many years have we had austerity now? Why will continuing end austerity when under membership we have had austerity?

Increased employment rights - like zero hours contracts, brought in under EU membership?

posted worker rules = better incomes for my clients = more money for me

• labour shortages - see above

I don't have clients so how will that benefit me?

And finally Erasmus - doesn't apply to me.

So quite specific and personal to certain people.

You have to recognise that for many people EU membership hasn't shown us great benefits. We want to see change.

{to train and employ our own citizens rather than import labour from elsewhere, to be free to trade with other countries in the world.}

It is the UK industry and UK government that have been holding back on training.
The UK can trade with anyone in the world now. If it does so in partnership with the EU (as now) many aspects of trade dealing are already covered by 'deals'. If you think that some country is going to give a better deal to the UK of 60 Million, over a trading block of 500 Million for the same items you are mistaken.

The benefits of being able to stand for what we want, to develop policies that benefit us, to train and employ our own citizens rather than import labour from elsewhere, to be free to trade with other countries in the world.

Wake up!!! I'd like a return to the full British Empire, that I was a miilionaire and that Superman was a real, live hero. There is NO scenario where ANY of these are possible.

weetabix
like zero hours contracts, brought in under EU membership?
Only by the UK
the rest of the EU does not have them or want them ....

to be free to trade with other countries in the world.
Which countries does the UK not trade with at present?
remember that 47% of the UKs trade is with non EU countries

Really? Neither the leavers or remainers thought people would actually vote to leavel, so NO-ONE was prepared.
Then stupid is as stupid does.

The referendum had only 2 choices. There was always a chance that leave would win. They should have prepared for it.

our government has already said we will relax immigration rules to meet demands for workers

Yes for workers that we need, where we have a skills shortage, not all comers to fill minimum wage jobs or where we could train our own workers.

Austerity. Seriously? You’re going there? If we leave, no matter how we leave, our economy will be hit harder. For heavens sake. We will be under austerity measures for longer because of your vote. The EU did not bring in austerity measures, our governments did.

Lots of Eu contries don’t allow zero hour contracts. Not sure how you can blame the EU there.

Then stupid is as stupid does

That’s you. It’s literally you that voted for something we weren’t prepared for. That’s why I didn’t vote for it. Goodness me.

like zero hours contracts, brought in under EU membership?
Only by the UK
the rest of the EU does not have them or want them ....

Yes and my point is that being in the EU hasn't protected UK workers so why say that remaining in the UK will give increased protection to workers?

You argue that the UK basically has free will so if that's the case then staying in gives no more than we already have and it hasn't been that great.

or where we could train our own workers
Which people would be trained?
Unemployment in the UK is at historic lows.
The native born population will start declining in the next decade.

Companies could be forced to train workers within the EU
but no UK party will force them to
especially after Brexit