Second Referendum

[Neweternal]

Ok I don't understand I knew it was a risk leaving and it may initially make us poorer but for many reasons thinking 20 years on I felt it is the right thing for the country to leave the EU.

Second referendum if it transpires I will vote the same way. Yes Brexit is hard but you don't give up something because it's difficult. I have a chum who has shifted from remain to Brexit which surprised me.

What happens when and if the second referendum is again leave? To remainers accept we KNEW it wasn't going to be easy but we want sovereignty and not tied to the EU.

There was a bit of arrogance prior to the referendum with IN almost thinking they had it in the bag, same thing now!

@bellinisurge I can't answer that as I want a united Ireland.

You're on another planet, Planet Troll

Or Jack Daniels

Just because people hold a different view doesn't make them a troll. I think leaver are scared to speak due to the loud guardian readers about. Cultural Marxism!

No, when your solution to the NI border is Irish unification, you are on another planet or you are just trolling, NI is a very serious issue, we had a close family member killed over there and i had a school friend very seriously injured, both in the Army - 3600 in total and it could very easily start up again and if it does, it'll be because of people like you.

You gave NI no fcuking thought at all.

Even Ireland accepted - as part of the GFA - that Irish reunification would only take place after an all Ireland poll voted in favour of it. In signing the GFA, it renounced its claim on the 6 counties in favour of a peaceful compromise - which only worked because both countries were in the EU. This resulted in the Troubles (such a euphemism ) ending and 20 years of peace.

But people like Neweternal know better But somehow I don't think his/her vote will be the deciding one - if indeed if he/she even has a vote in any Irish re-unification poll

the Troubles (such a euphemism sad)

Isn't this a very celtic way of expressing things? When the Welsh Nationalists used to burn down English holiday homes, they were described as 'the burnings'.

I'm still very confused about globalisation. I think I see what it is. Kind of... A little bit...

But I don't get what relation it has to the riots or to Brexit? Perhaps @neweternal you could explain your position on that? And also what you mean by a "globalist"?

Why would people be rioting and vote for Brexit in protest against this: "Globalisation is the way that many products have a manufacturing chain that extends around the world"?

I grew in Lincolnshire, the most staunch of leave voting areas. I don't think I've ever in 38 years heard anyone there mention globalisation or "manufacturing chains".

I think globalisation in great part means complicated supply chains, so manufacturing happens far away (of goods we use).

This makes countries inter-dependent.
This keeps prices down.
This only works with rampant free trade, low barrier trade, even pooled sovereignty clubs.
This seems to remove traditional low skill jobs from local areas, in high income countries.
And hence the link to Brexit. Low skilled workers perceive they lost jobs & gained nothing (they don't count secure decent quality cheap goods as a gain).

@yeoldetrout

Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. So it's about jobs at the end of the day.

@neweternal

The area I'm from originally, voted 70% in favour of leaving. That's roughly 120,000 votes for leave.

There are only 3000 unemployed people there currently (less in 2016), so well under 2% of the votes could possibly be about lack of jobs due to globalisation.

In my area at least, I can't see what globalisation could have to do it. Unless I'm missing something.

Besides can we not get prisoner out to do such tasks, they do work in the USA, even call centre work

Thats slavery.

So the definition of slavery is work that prisoners won't do??? You'll find that as far as fruit picking the wages on offer are actually pretty good. The employers aren't all scraping the barrel and they are complying with the relatively (on a global scale) decent employment practise in the UK. The companies that operate illegally are..um.. operating illegally.

@Neweternal , I'm half Irish. Passport to prove it. Yes you can answer it because you know there are strongly held views on both sides. The main reason we are in this mess is the DUP. The main thing wrong with the deal is the Irish Backstop.
Border in the sea and an NI free trade zone (my solution) is not acceptable to the DUP who, in turn, prop up May. Not is it acceptable to the ERG twats.
What is your solution?

A definition of slavery is "a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation"

So, Prisoners would be on a min wage and subject to paying a victims levy, monies go to a victims charity.

In order to get the numbers required, it would be forced work 60,000 foreign fruit an veg pickers work in the UK each year.
There is security issues and the amount of supervision required too,

...maybe Marshall's on horseback with shotguns? and the 'pickers chained together at the ankles, wearing stripy overalls?

Its just a very ill thought out idea.

Globalism being relevant isn't just about local employment rates.

It's about ...
...interaction: letting 'other' in to my culture, society, eye space.
...interdependence, I'm dependent on them, them on me, I'm not in my little island of me & mine any more.
...moving the negatives of manufacturing elsewhere, which is bad in a left-wing way (we become responsible for low pay, high pollution, dangerous factory, unfair working practices, etc. in other places)
...sovereignty: pooling some, lowering tariffs.
...changes in the types of jobs: perception that the jobs aren't what we used to think of as 'real' and rewarding work.

I also live in a low unemployment (lowest in UK one month in 2016) low immigrants high Brexit supporting area (60%). Demographically one of the very oldest counties in England. Xenophobia is bottom line of Brexit support here.

Globalism is used by the extreme right as code for Jewish conspiracy.
Wave that silly word around at your peril.
We have always been an interdependent trading nation. As have most developed economies. The fact we don't go round stealing resources in less developed countries and killing the people who live there means we are not imperialists as we go about our international co-operation and trade. We have parts made for our goods in other countries and either assemble them here or assemble them there. Yes, it doesn't always go the way we want. That's business. That's international politics. It's not globalism. Being part of the biggest trade bloc in the world allows us to make better deals. And if we screw up, fix it as part of a big trade bloc.
Scratch the surface of the word "globalism " and you will find conspiracies about cabalistic Jewish financiers and shit ideas like that.

Of course cities like Liverpool and Manchester grew and were incredibly wealthy (well some were) based on slavery where slave owners could beat them to death for 'fun'. That was a very one sided version of 'globalisation', basically stealing resources.
The world has moved on a bit and has turned and now the UK is facing the possibility that it may become the 'cheap labour' area of the emerging world. I can't remember which politician has already suggested reestablishing 'workhouses'.
If you look at who owns the various companies in the UK it would give you an idea of how much trouble the UK will be in when they leave.
The world is entering a bit of a recession, and there is overcapacity in places. With the UK leaving the EU, an EU company wishing to cut back production where they have similar factories in the UK and Europe may well decide that to drop capacity, simply shut the UK plants down, either mothball or remove completely.
I think it is Volkswagen who have around 500,000 unsold vehicles stashed in Europe somewhere.

@neweternal
You write get some skilled labour from the commonwealth and in the SAME post I would like to see our population go down And why aren't you complaining about Commonwealth citizens having dubious backgrounds (as you said EU citizens do)?

Your posts literally make no sense.

I am a "skilled worker with a PhD" (to use your labels) and I will NOT find it easy to move around Europe without FOM. In fact, I may even lose my job. It is NOT just a case of get an education = you can move around Europe (which in any case wouldn't address any of the complex problems we are facing and which you obviously have no idea about).

I will NOT find it easy to move around Europe without FOM.

Anyway, those who do manage to use their skills and education to move around the world, will find that this, too, is yet another stick to be beaten with: "Metropolitan liberal elite who doesn't care about the downtrodden, unpatriotic traitor who has abandoned their national roots, etc"

Just got this through my letterbox. Anyone else get it yet?

That flyer would have more gravitas if it hadn't used quotes from the Express, Mail etc, some of which are 'dubious'.
Quite good as a year 10 homework. 6/10.

I guess they are trying to appeal to the overwhelming support for Leave my area got. Apart from all us secret Remain voters.

@recently Look you can move relatively easily to most countries out with the EU with a PHD such as the USA, Canada and Australia. I find it hard to believe you require FOM once we leave if you had a PHD!

How many people have a phd?

I thought the whole point of Brexit was a better life for people without PhD s

I find it hard to believe you require FOM once we leave if you had a PHD!

I find it hard to believe you think having a PhD gives you an automatic right to ignore international laws....