Second Referendum

[Neweternal]

Ok I don't understand I knew it was a risk leaving and it may initially make us poorer but for many reasons thinking 20 years on I felt it is the right thing for the country to leave the EU.

Second referendum if it transpires I will vote the same way. Yes Brexit is hard but you don't give up something because it's difficult. I have a chum who has shifted from remain to Brexit which surprised me.

What happens when and if the second referendum is again leave? To remainers accept we KNEW it wasn't going to be easy but we want sovereignty and not tied to the EU.

There was a bit of arrogance prior to the referendum with IN almost thinking they had it in the bag, same thing now!

EU mechanisms are in place!

We just don't use them.

{They can have quotas on what we NEED into this country.}
The current 'need' at the moment in the UK is a government with a brain and some morals. Basically the UK is buggered.
Turkey would never join as it's record on human rights and many other factors would prevent it.
In fact the UK would struggle to rejoin if it wanted to as the bar for entry is higher than the UK can currently manage. Revoking A50 is about the only way it could remain as a full member.

@neweternal

It’s cool, no problem.

But you’re answering a question with a question.

I can’t give you an example of another country who’ve decided to remove themselves from every single trade deal that they have.

We will be the first country ever to do so in the history of civilisation.

I don’t know what would happen. There’s no historical example to base an opinion on. Neither do you.

But I think we can probably agree that there are risks (even if you believe there is the potential for positive).

If the worst case scenario came true, would you look in the eye of someone who couldn’t get the medication they need to continue living, and tell them it was worth the risk, and to be brave?

Even if there’s only a 10% chance of that happening, in your estimation, I’m just asking you to consider what you’d say to those people.

I’m curious that’s all, I’m not trying to trick you into giving up your position on Brexit. If you don’t want to answer then, that’s fair enough.

It’s just something that sprung to my mind when you mentioned about being brave and it being worth it in the long run.

Regardless, hope you have a nice weekend

@Moussemoose I know the labour government could have capped the numbers from Poland they never! If they did and did not call people who were concerned "bigots" we wouldn't be in the mess now.

You agree it is the fault of U.K. governments. Austerity, is the fault of U.K. governments. Brexit won't help and will make the situation a lot worse.

@jm90914 obviously I would be very upset if someone suffered and died. However I think this is highly unlikely.

I am glad that Neweternal has volunteered to house a single mun with 2 children in her £700,000 house which will have a couple of spare rooms. That's the kind of pulling together spirit that is needed in the UK.

{ obviously I would be very upset if someone suffered and died. However I think this is highly unlikely.}
It's happening now, quietly as elderly are being forgotten or don't get to see a doctor when they need it.

You wouldn't only be upset you would be responsible. Your vote has implications and you need to realise the potential issues would be your responsibility.

@Moussemoose A left wing labour government YES! As for austerity we couldn't and shouldn't have been spending and spending. UC is terrible but tax credits system were having people doing hobby job as self employed. Driving down the wages of more serious enterprises who were paying their taxes. Think polish valeter or even British nail tech claiming they earn/declare £20 a week then never being accountable to work for the minimum wage. They think claim top level child/working tax credits plus housing benefits. How can the British tax Payer think this is value for money?

Regardless of how I voted, a second referendum is wrong. The people were given the vote and we voted. It's called democracy.

All issues caused by U.K. governments.

Brexit will not help.

@1tisILeClerc My house does not cost £700K but over £400K perhaps it's the city I'm in. Oh and I am a single parent but I don't have the spare rooms and even if I did why the hell would I house people?

@fieryginger you want to buy a new house. You make a decision and put an offer in.

You have a survey and the house is built on sand.

You withdraw or renegotiate.

It happens all the time.

A bill going through the U.K. parliament is voted on several times at different stages.

Multiple votes and different points of decision making happen all the time, it is normal and perfectly democratic.

Neweternal Have you been to see your financial advisers recently because we met them last week, and they predict no deal means a bigger crash than 2008. There will be some benefit to the FTSE from a crashing pound but it will all be a matter of damage limitation. And that is with the resources to manage where our money goes.

Have you seen an estate agent? Have you looked at how the market is moving for your property as opposed to overall? We have, if we could sell our house, and no comparable family houses have been sold in 2017/18, none, from a buoyant market in 2016, then the price would be 20% lower than 2016 to hope to get a sale. The only part of the market still working is the bottom, young buyers are still buying. In our short road in the last two years three families have moved overseas as a direct result of Brexit and are renting out their homes because they can’t sell them. That is just the impact of uncertainty and companies pressing the trigger on moving their activities into the EU.

Brexit is having a massive impact on my personal life, and choices, and it will only get worse as long as uncertainty or calamity are the only options on the table. If that is the case for me then it will push many more without the resources already, and reliant on food banks, over the brink ? We are talking real suffering on a Dickensian scale. If you think you have / will escape the impacts you are kidding yourself. The only consolation in this is that the smug sense of entitlement you manifest will meet hubris......

If you are a single parent with a 400k house, who's paying your mortgage? You must be on good money to be able to afford it on your own.

@bellinisurge owned outright. I'm self employed.

@Emilyontmoor expected to make 6k return on my investment every year, although in recent years I've been earning more. My financial advisor has said.

Oh and I've been poor, left school at 16 and been on benefits too. It's not I don't have empathy for the poor. I really do hence why I don't feel the bottom of the market should be flooded with low skilled labour from Eastern Europe.

@Neweternal - definitely just like an ordinary person and well able to make judgments about how poverty works.

I really do hence why I don't feel the bottom of the market should be flooded with low skilled labour from Eastern Europe. Or high-skilled doctors and engineers, or even fruitpickers and care assistants - all workers that we desperately need and which CAN'T be filled by UK workers. What's your solution?

You are an even fancier house away from being a disaster capitalist.
I actually admire an entrepreneurial spirit (assuming you have one). I think it helps the economy grow and creates jobs for people.
What I don't like is rich people wishing to turn the country to shit so they can make a fast buck out of it. And telling us that it's for our own good.

Well if he is telling you that that will continue in the event of no deal then he or she is a rubbish financial adviser and you need a new one. Ours has built getting the share of our pot that is in equities out and into other investments in the event of a 2008 type crash - and unless you are happy to lose your investments in such a high risk vehicle at a time of volatility you should be making the same arrangements. Indeed your financial adviser should have advised you accordingly and had you sign all sorts of forms for the FSA advising you this is not wise, that conform you are happy with such a risky investment. These forms are part of the regulations that were put in place after the 2008 crash to protect the unwise from being so exposed to huge losses again. Of course JRM etc. Want all those regulations put on a bonfire so that they can profit from the volatility and the gullability of investors who leave their investments ripe for exploitation.......

I would accept it if the country voted for a no-deal Brexit. Ultimately, that's democracy, and if Turkeys choose to vote for Christmas, who am I to stop them?

However, I don't think I'd stick around to watch the chaos unfold, as that would be too upsetting. Luckily for us, we have residency rights in two non-EU countries, so we'd have other options. I'd pity the poor sods who have no other options.

I am interested in your evidence that countries do just fine trading on WTO terms? Which countries? Were you perhaps taken in by Tony Abbott’s recent profitable speaking tour when he came out with all sorts of rubbish about walking away from the EU negotiations and it would be fine going over the cliff edge. Thing is Tony Abbott knows full well it is rubbish because he is Australia’s shortest ever serving PM partly because he basically sold the family silver so desperate was he to get a trade deal with China, Australia’s biggest trading partner, rather than trading on WTO terms. Australia is in trade partnerships with their main trading neighbours, China, Korea and New Zealand, accounting for well over half of their trade. He capitulated to China’s demands because that is the way trade relations go and he knows it.Still he made lots of money saying what all the leavers wanted to hear....