Second Referendum

[Neweternal]

Ok I don't understand I knew it was a risk leaving and it may initially make us poorer but for many reasons thinking 20 years on I felt it is the right thing for the country to leave the EU.

Second referendum if it transpires I will vote the same way. Yes Brexit is hard but you don't give up something because it's difficult. I have a chum who has shifted from remain to Brexit which surprised me.

What happens when and if the second referendum is again leave? To remainers accept we KNEW it wasn't going to be easy but we want sovereignty and not tied to the EU.

There was a bit of arrogance prior to the referendum with IN almost thinking they had it in the bag, same thing now!

@poster Neweternal

So, financially stable, able to withstand economic pain but very happy to inflict it on other people, for in your own words, the next 20 years or so!

You ve also failed in answer the Galileo and security issues.

I'm tired of this argument about immigrants being a strain on GP surgeries. The local ones would probably shut without immigrants to staff them - not solely from the EU but also India. So yes, let's kick immigrants out, shut half the GP surgeries for 15 or so years while we make a big effort to train up UK born staff. What is there not to like? After all people in Africa have one doctor for 90, 000 people if they are lucky, why should we have something better?
Don't forget some politicians are quite happy to promote this lowering of standards (for us, not them.)
[Tongue in cheek, I hope you can see that]

@Neweternal - when was the last time you went to the shops. How do you think stuff gets on the shelves. You are so naive.

The best scenario in the long run is a no deal in March.

This way there will be no ambiguity. UK out of four freedoms.

Then either it's going to be nirvana (specially for the bottom 20% of the income ladder) or it's going to be a catastrophe in which case we can join again whenever the pain is too much to take.

May knows she has to chose between a political outcry (not heeding referendum result) or economic meltdown. She is trying to have just a bit of both to have the least worst of all options.

Unfortunately it makes leave and remain voters unhappy. The leave voters because they see it's almost like staying but without a say and remain voters... for the same reason ie fewer benefits without a say.

The cries of 'project fear' are still going I see.

The level of stupidity in British society at the moment is high unfortunately. And a dose of stubbornness goes along with it. I'm sure I'll be called a horrible elitist for saying that but no, I'm just engaging my brain and interacting with reality.

Thankfully the sensible majority in Parliament seems to me flexing their muscle do it's a soft Brexit or no Brexit, anything else would be dangerously reckless.

I am prepared to be poorer and make sacrifices for the long term benefit of the country.

This is project fear. My shares have been fine since Brexit and my house has gone up 70k.

So what you are saying is, only in theory you would be happy to be poor, but in practice you are all right jack.

If you have shares and own a house then you can probably afford to be a bit poorer. However, you are making that decision for people who are already poor.

When people really begin to suffer , more than they are suffering now, will you still feel ok or do you just not care?

Neweternal and you haven't responded to the point about EU immigrants being net contributors - you read the report - do you not believe it or not understand it?

@neweternal

There’s no need to rant at me aggressively.... I’m not having a go, and I was pefectly polite.

But, you didn’t answer my question.

If the worst prediction comes true in a no deal scenario, and people need to do without medicine temporarily that keeps them alive, what would you say to those people?

Would you look them in the face and tell them it’s all for the best? That their medication was worth the gamble? That they should be brave?

This is a hypothetical question. But I think it’s important, and fair, for you to consider that there are risks associated with the outcome you desire.

If you refuse to answer, then you’re perfectly welcome to say so, but please don’t rant and rave at me. It was needlessly rude.

@neweternal

Your house has accrued £70k in value since 2016?

The average yearly price increase is 5%, which means that you live in £700,000 house.

You’re absolutely correct that you personally will be absolutely fine in any scenario. You’re rich in comparison to 99% of the country, so you’re completely right to say everything will be fine from your perspective, whatever happens.

It may not be ok for people who’s means are considerably less than yours.

"Then either it's going to be nirvana (specially for the bottom 20% of the income ladder) or it's going to be a catastrophe in which case we can join again whenever the pain is too much to take."
We won't be able to join on the sweet deal terms we have now.
And twats like Patel wishing starvation on another member state as a negotiating tool has just made it a whole lot harder. Starvation on a country that suffered man made starvation at our hands before.
Ignorant.

Why are you talking about "project fear" when people are giving you sound facts and figures

^

Yes this. Why?Why?

Being patient, explaining, showing facts and figures to evangelistic Leavers doesn't work. You either come up against:

1. I'm alright jack.

1. Project fear.

1. My life's so shit I want to spread the misery.

1. I don't care what it costs or the benefits they bring I want no foreigners.

I think we really can't risk another ref. Too many people just go with a quick media sound bite, instead of setting aside some time to google, read and research things thoroughly from a range of sources.

( 2. Is the most weird response to real facts and figures, especially as it is often combined with unquestioning regurgitation of crap sound bites from the likes of Johnson or Farage.)

Shares haven't yet felt the full impact because the majority of shares in the FTSE 100 (and to a lesser extent the FTSE 250) are traded internationally, so with the devaluation of the pound following the result, they actually went up in value

This article explains it quite well (and also points out that even if the FTSE has been doing ok, other stock markets have been doing better )

https://www.ft.com/content/6814223c-faaf-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167

@Moussemoose They're not net contributors

www.thesun.co.uk/news/5776790/eu-migrants-in-britain-claimed-more-than-4bn-of-handouts-in-a-year/amp/

@jm90914 Sorry you felt I ranted. Ok so what other nonEU counties have to stock pile food and medicine? I can't see the UK turning into Zimbabwe.

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/recent-releases/8747673d-3b26-439b-9693-0e250df6dbba

So you have a choice who do you believe: Oxfordeconomics or The Sun

@Moussemoose
Then just maybe the UK government should have got off it's arse and actually implemented some of the rules that the rest of the EU have at their disposal. You can't blame the EU because the UK government are shit.

The report you quote is not about all EU immigration but looks at immigration from particular Easter European countries.

Did you actually read it?

@Moussemoose I'm NOT against immigration just low skilled workers. Skilled workers are definitely of benefit to the country.

@Moussemoose Yes I did and some of reasons why people voted Brexit is because British people in working class areas have felt invaded. There's also the concern of more countries like Turkey joining the Eu and a EU army. I don't want that!

Then how exactly is Brexit going to help and how is quoting reports that do not back up what you say helping?

We are now beginning to suffer because we don't have enough unskilled workers prepared to work on U.K. farms. How will Brexit help?

Remember the Iraq war, some people thought politicians were clever and trusted Tony Blair. Imagine if we had a referendum on not going to war and won. The world might be a different place now.

@Neweternal is just having fun

Turkey won't join. It's a myth that has been thoroughly proven to be a myth.

The (Lincolnshire excepted) areas with the highest immigration, London, Manchester etc voted to remain. Many areas value immigration.

The working classes are being shafted by Tory austerity, absolutely. Far from helping Brexit will make the situation significantly worse for these areas and these people.

@Moussemoose They can have quotas on what we NEED into this country. The seasonal fruit picker argument can be overcome with mechanisms.

It's good to debunk these myths. Again.

And again.

And probably again.