Westministenders: The One Where We Finally Get A Leadership Challenge?

[RedToothBrush]

Tick tick tick.

What do we think?

Yes? No?

Another week of wtf-ing at British politics.

Hesta54
The UK will then leave on March 29th with nothing, and all the negative things that the UK gov have issued 'tech notes' about start to kick in.
The flights would stop, food from the EU would not arrive etc.

On the plus side, FoM will be nearly 100% effective, no one will be going in or out of the UK until something else is agreed.

Hesta- if there's another narrow percentage Leave win on an evaluated detailed plan, it's different. At least we know that, knowing what the deal actually means, people do want to take the financial hit.

That's better than an undefined, and uncosted vote on an unknown model.

It stops the FOM.

And yet you'll get some Leavers being all indignant at any suggestion that their vote was based on dislike of foreigners.

What would happen if a people’s vote still had a leave win, what then ?

It would be chaos etc but if leave won I'm convinced it would be a crucial step for the UK to take stock and re-evaluate its position in the world. If that's what it takes then that's what it takes. People are informed now, it's not 2016 anymore. I for one would 100% respect that result no matter how disastrous and regrettable it would be.

1tisILeClerc Let’s stop this nonsense about no flights, both the EU and U.K. are both putting things in place to keep airplanes flying, even with no deal

And yet you'll get some Leavers being all indignant at any suggestion that their vote was based on dislike of foreigners.
You mean like the comments there has always been about asylum seekers (20years ago), non Europeans immigrants and the any immigrants,
‘They are coming to steal our jobs BUT I don’t mean YOU’ type of discourse?

Yes. It’s never about me, you, the neighbours next door. And it has never existed before.
Cognitive dissonance at its best.

If a people's vote got a leave win, then that's that and I'll accept that we've chosen to be screwed over so here it comes. But at least people would have had a much clearer idea of what they were voting for, without lies about the NHS on buses, lies about sunlit uplands ahead and how easy it would be to do fabulous trade deals, and Russian money and goodness knows what dodgy funding behind it all with the intent of deceiving the electorate and destabilising the country. Last time turned out to be based on hot air and deception. Vote on the facts and I'll respect it.

both the EU and U.K. are both putting things in place to keep airplanes flying, even with no deal
Which basically means that wo someone getting of their backside to do something, the planes wouod be grounded.

All the stuff about food shortages, plane not flying etc... have always been about RISK. Risk that it would happen if something is t sorted out befire the 29 March.
Great if they can do that with planes.
It doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have happened if they had just let it happen. (Just like we wouod have had plenty of problem in 2000 if things hadn’t been out in place before hand)

At least there's a Brexit dividend, it's just that it's paying out elsewhere..

London's score fell by eight points from six months ago, the biggest decline among the top contenders.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1LS16I?twitterr_impression=true

As it's Friday.. as ever Crace made me laugh " The intellectual legend that is David Davis.."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/22/mps-pile-on-from-all-sides-to-trash-mays-brexit-non-deal-deal

Former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab has claimed that Theresa May’s deal on Brexit would be worse than staying in the EU.

This would be encouraging if it wasn't also clear that many MPs still believe that a better deal is possible by simply shouting louder at foreigners.

What is difficult about the term 'No deal' that some are having problems with.
If you go into a high street bank and you do not have an account there, will they 'give' you any money,,,,NO!
Same with 'No deal'. The UK would have NO agreements on a vast range of laws and regulations that we have currently.
Yes obviously the UK and EU would LIKE to be able to continue flying but NO DEAL means it is legally impossible. There would be rapid talks to stick something together but as the whole setup is so complicated it could take weeks (Heathrow management have rejigged their loans to allow for 8 weeks).

{Former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab has claimed that Theresa May’s deal on Brexit would be worse than staying in the EU.}
For once he is telling the truth.
The WA (theresa's deal) will allow the UK to function, it is not 'good' for the UK as remaining, as we were prior to 2016 was 'the best' deal ever, and as we had so many opt outs the UK deal was already better than most other 'deals' that the other members get.

If you go into a high street bank and you do not have an account there, will they 'give' you any money,,,,NO!

"Well no, you don't seem to understand, obviously I don't have an account with you, but I'm not like those other people without an account, I have a 'managed' no account."

Yes absolutely but it should also be noted that ending FOM a specifically English obsession.

An symmetric obsession, it has to be said. Foreigners FOM has to go. But our FOM is a God-given right.

It's like "criminals don't deserve human rights" - it's harder to think of better paradigm for "not only am I thick as pigshit, ignorant and gobby; but I don't care who knows it". In caps.

The text of the A50 leaving the EU bill states something like 'All existing treaties and agreements will end at (whichever date and time)'.
Meaning that everything has to be re negotiated.

"An symmetric obsession, it has to be said. Foreigners FOM has to go. But our FOM is a God-given right."

Wasn't there a survey which said exactly the same thing, a majority thought Brits should be able to move abroad to the EU whenever, but we should limit others coming here?

British exceptionalism defined, in fact the whole EU debate encapsulated in one question. Essentially the leave argument all the way has been: " We want to be able to do as we like, but the rest of you have to follow the rules that we set."

1tisILeClerc yes all existing treaties will end, nothing stopping them agreeing a temporary deal for flights, which I’m sure both parties would be very keen to avoid

Wasn't there a survey which said exactly the same thing, a majority thought Brits should be able to move abroad to the EU whenever, but we should limit others coming here?

Yes it's because we are special and should have exclusive queue jumping rights.

So we want a temporary deal for, Flights, travel documentation, medicines, food, JIT manufacture, Insurance, security ......
At which point is the UK taking the pi$$?

It has been said on these threads before but the significance of FOM is much bigger than its economic impact. It's about freedom. Setting aside the UK's treatment of foreigners, FOM was thought up by the EU as a guarantee that populations could freely move and no one would be locked in.
When looking at China's use of the internet as a repressive tool (its rollout of 'social credits' now meant to restrict citizens freedom to travel), I think it's more important than ever to recognize how we can best protect our individual freedom- and the EUs FOM is a great protection not to be sniffed at. Of course China has never been known for its respect of human rights but I'm concerned that this perversion of social media might be a tempting novel way for other states to control their populations' whereabouts.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-social-credit-system-flight-booking-blacklisted-beijing-points-a8646316.html

FOM was thought up by the EU as a guarantee that populations could freely move and no one would be locked in.

I think many people who voted Leave feel locked in (willingly or unwillingly) by educational and economic circumstances. Language is a really big barrier. Going to live the other side of the world in Australia seems a more realistic proposition than working 100 miles away in France.

My apologies if this has already been posted:

www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/lord-alan-sugar-lays-liars-15452739.amp

Lord Alan Sugar gives his incisive opinion on Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and “that twat in a pinstripe suit”.

"So we want a temporary deal for, Flights, travel documentation, medicines, food, JIT manufacture, Insurance, security ."

That's what the WA gives us.