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Brexit

Westministenders: Well this is getting interesting!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/11/2018 14:52

The Minister responsible for writing a deal with the EU has succeeded in coming to an agreement. And has subsequently resigned because he can not agree with it. This man previously didn't know where Dover was, and why this was important. This man is a solicitor used to writing and reading complicated documents.

And we are supposed to believe he has done the honourable thing and has quit on a matter of principle. And has in no way, been a Carpetbagger all along and has deliberately intended to scupper a deal.

Mundell is not wrong about his former Cabinet College but its not terribly polite.

Esther has fucked off too. She was cut out the loop over the UC slow down and was precorded as civil servants thought she'd go crackers if she gave a live interview. This seems consistent with reports that she threw a tantrum in the Cabinet meeting, demanding a vote, before Sir Humphrey told her to refer to the Cabinet Handbook that states that votes are not allowed.

Rees-Smugg seems to have triggered a split in the ERG and has submitted a letter to Graham. Graham has been to see Julian, to tell him that he's not had enough fan mail - yet. Other ERG seem more content to just attempt to vote the deal down. Will there be a confidence vote? If there is, will May win? If she does she gets a special prize of 12 months immunity albeit with the booby prize of still having to get a deal through Parliament.

May now seems to be running a minority government as there are suggestions that the confidence and supply deal with the DUP is over. Kate Hoey appear to have joined the DUP. Perhaps she should have resigned from the Labour party first.

Gove was offered the poison chalice of the Brexit Secretary post. Initial reports said he baulked at the responsibility. Will he resign? Is he just going to go for the top job now? There is now suggestion, he hasn't rejected it afterall. Maybe she should just abolish the department and reallocate resources to the Cabinet office (like she's already done anyway).

Mordaunt is meeting the PM this afternoon to be told personally that there isn't a cat in hell's chance that May will have a free vote over Brexit. Just so she can get the PR for her leadership bid. Resignation scheduled for this afternoon.

Hunt and Javid just sat on the front bench after making noises to please leavers and set themselves up for their leadership bid.

Johnson is lurking. No statement today. Got some ringing around to get supporters for his leadership bid? Will he be the stalking horse?

Loathsome and Fox, admit their political careers have reached their zenith, and they got a cat in hell's chance of getting another Cabinet post. They are not resigning. Today at least.

Greyling is currently silent. There is speculation that his resignation is running late. Twitter is having a field day with jokes.

Duncan has said that an ERG candidate won't be able to form a government - implying that Tories would resign the whip if they did.

Stewart, has done his honourable best to support May through thick and thin, with his best Comical Ali impression and spouting any old bollocks on the radio. Bless Little Rory.

Neill retweets him. Soames doesn't sounds unlike them both. Morgan wouldn't mind a Cabinet job again. Soubry doesn't really care who is in charge as long anymore so long as its not the ERG.

Hancock said in Cabinet that he couldn't guarentee no deaths in a no deal situation. Leavers do not have an alternative idea to May's deal but No Deal. They don't mind risking Hancock being unable to protect people from death.

There are 10 days to go until the EU Summit. We have no idea if we will have a clear PM. Two days later we find out if unilateral revokation is an option to save our necks from disaster if we get that far.

If there is a no confidence vote, its penciled in for Tuesday.

The only Brexit certainity you can be sure of is this thread won't make it til then.

OP posts:
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bofsy1 · 16/11/2018 18:19

Portillo should stick to his train journeys. I'm sure this was just another Portillo moment.

I understand he has Spanish citizenship through his father. Some hypocrite if he has retained it during his eurosceptic adulthood.

Bet he's glad of it now though.

(I actually like his train journey shows, I can multitask)

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 16/11/2018 18:24

Another giggle:

@SheRa_Marley
hey I just met you
and this is crazy
come work for DEXEU
for two months maybe

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 18:24

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects" target="_blank">Europe Electsts<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects" target="_blank">@EuropeElectss_s

UK, Survation poll:

EU membership ref

Remain: 53% (+3)
Leave: 47% (-3)

Field work: 15/11/18
Sample size: 828

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 18:28

What complicates the situation is that MPs can withdraw their letters anytime

  • we don't know if any of them have done that
BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 18:43

We Are Paying The Price For Brexiteers' Political Cowardice

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paying-the-price-of-cowardiceukk5bee8834e4b028c7b827490b?guccounter=1&gucereferrerrus=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmRlLw&gucereferrerr_cs=djiKFWYu282RTpI1AS1lxA

They didn’t know how complicated it would be.
They didn’t know how intricately woven is the UK’s membership of the EU.
They didn’t know that the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland might turn out to be a bit of a problem.
They didn’t know how divided their party was. Or how divided the country was.
....
David Aaronovitch of The Times:
“The Raabs are deserting the sinking ship,
a scurrying made additionally poignant by the fact that they are the ones who sank it.” 😂😭

MissMalice · 16/11/2018 18:43

It amazes me that the polls are still so close. There’s a lot of “we are all much more informed now” being spouted and still people think leaving is a good idea ?

DoctorTwo · 16/11/2018 18:45

Thanks for that Twitter thread @Arborea, it's probaqbly the best thread about this shitshow ever written. :o

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 18:49

The second-most googled Brexit question in mid-September was "What is Brexit?",
according to a break down by Google Trends.

www.euronews.com/2018/09/20/google-reveals-the-uk-is-still-wondering-what-is-brexit-thecube

bofsy1 · 16/11/2018 18:49

It's early days in a decisive decision making process.

I hope that very soon those in favour of the Agreement will point out the awfulness of Hard Brexit. That may filter out in the coming days and weeks. There really has to be a counterpoint to the stupid inane soundbytes like getting back the borders, will of the people, EU dictatorship, etc.

But unfortunately I don't think many people care enough to inform themselves either. I'd say they are sick of it all.

FPTP system has led to a dearth of political interest. Why bother getting involved if your MP is in a safe seat and would get elected if he wore a Batman outfit. To me that is the sad reality.

Tanith · 16/11/2018 18:51

Looks like Amber Rudd has been shafted again. Appointed just in time to take the flack over the UN report.

TheElementsSong · 16/11/2018 18:53

FPTP system has led to a dearth of political interest

Totally agree.

lonelyplanetmum · 16/11/2018 19:10

In any other job Amber Rudd would not get a reference from her employer. She had to resign from the Cabinet after blatant lying to a Westminster Committee.

Imagine an employee who lies to her bosses about something serious and resigns. That would be curtains for that career. A panic situation requiring a new job with no reference. Here Amber gets to be in charge of the whole of the country's DWP Issues- bizarre!

Why are standards so low and the candidates so limited.

Peregrina · 16/11/2018 19:18

She not only lied and then grudgingly resigned, but then blamed the civil servants for hiding the information from her. Hasn't she heard the saying that a poor workman blames his tools? Someone on top of the job would have their ear to the ground and know what their department was doing.

I am also annoyed with Redwood's piece in the Guardian today. 17 1/2 million wanted to leave the single market and customs union, he opines. No chum, you either have an extremely short memory or you are just lying (as is par for the course now.) I distinctly remember Daniel Hannan after the Referendum saying 'No on is talking of leaving the Single Market. Let's not pass up the opportunity to remind people reading that he is the man who suggest moving your investments to France or Germany as he has done.

I am also annoyed with MN for pulling the thread about the Tories and May - are they totally spineless sell outs?

OlennasWimple · 16/11/2018 19:19

LAte in the thread, if not in the day, Place Mat King

What an interesting weekend we might have....

bofsy1 · 16/11/2018 19:19

Is the required talent and intelligence around in Government anymore?

Seems to me it is a constant night of the long knives. Doesn't matter about the concerns du jour, no..... seems to me it is all about bluff and bluster, knifing the PM, and making loud noises and making a name for themselves. Whereas they should have the best interests of the people uppermost in their minds. I know, I had a dream.

I do hope the tide is turning on this constant bickering.

The world is laughing at the incompetence of the UK right now.

prettybird · 16/11/2018 19:29

To be fair on Amber Rudd and you know I don't want to be Wink - didn't a recent inquiry say that she was badly misled by her officials - but the interview I heard with her about that said it was still her responsibility and it was right that she left. She actually went up a wee bit in my estimation at the time.

On the topic of why the polls are not moving us much as we would expect, given the greater information now available, the consequences of no deal/a bad deal/ any deal Sad, the fact that it had been proven that the public was lied to Angry and that the process was both corrupted and corrupt Angry: is it not an example of the Backlash or Skeptic Effect? (Not sure the correct name).

In other words, the more that people are presented with information that goes counter to what they believed/were led to believe, even if it was definitively proven to be falsehoods or based on false premises, the more entrenched they get in their beliefs Confused as otherwise it would mean admitting that they were duped Sad

It's a recognised psychological reaction Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 19:33

What was going on in that May thread, peregrina ?
I vaguely remember it seemed innocuous enough when I posted, but that was quite a while ago

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 19:37

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-and-the-march-of-folly-1.3699010

Dominic Raab’s resignation in protest at a deal he was himself responsible for negotiating
is like robbing a bank and then performing a citizen’s arrest on yourself on the way out 😂😂

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2018 19:42

pretty You are thinking of
backfire effect
http://www.skepdic.com/backfireeffect.html

a term used to describe how some individuals when confronted with evidence that conflicts with their beliefs
come to hold their original position even more strongly
....
The more ideological and the more emotion-based a belief is, the more likely it is that contrary evidence will be ineffective

prettybird · 16/11/2018 19:44

That's the one Grin

It explains what is going on in the Brexit psyche perfectly Sad It's almost counter-productive trying to get them to understand that they were duped. Confused

I was trying to describe it today to dh.

bellinisurge · 16/11/2018 19:50

Regularly ask Leavers on here to make a promise:Commit to coming on here and admitting you were wrong if it all goes to shit in the next year after No Deal. Because I'm happy to come on here and admit I was wrong if it all goes well.
No one likes to admit they've been had.

Peregrina · 16/11/2018 19:51

What was going on in that May thread, peregrina ?
Well the last postings I saw was one from surferjet saying that now we could get a leaver in to do the job properly or some such.
Another saying that the Leavers in Govt had had their chance and had bottled it, and then two from me, one saying that hadn't surferjet extolled the virtues of Mrs May, and then two quotes from previous threads of surferjet's where she did exactly that.

I was hoping for a reply, didn't get one, had to go out for a couple of hours and came back and whoosh the thread had gone. I would have liked to see surferjet's reply of either having the grace to either admit she'd been wrong, or was disappointed in May. The attempt that we are now seeing from Leavers trying to rewrite history with their "no one said it would be easy" when exactly that was said, just annoys me and is a bit silly when a very quick search brings up old posts.

SusanWalker · 16/11/2018 19:54

The government's complete refusal to recognise the issues around poverty and unfairness just shows they are delivering brexit without any understanding of why a large proportion of leave voters wanted it.

I know there are well off leavers who are all about the ideology, but there was a large tranche who thought that without immigrants or money going to Brussels there would be more for them.

And now the UN report which should be headline news is drowned out by brexit and nothing will be any better for the people who need it most.

Minimammoth · 16/11/2018 19:59

About JRM. There is something odd about his suit( am not obsessed, honest). It look as if it’s stuffed with straw and there’s not really a body in there.
Sorry I digress.

bellinisurge · 16/11/2018 20:00

So @SusanWalker - how does putting this country in an economic tailspin with No Deal sort out austerity?
People were duped. Their difficulties exploited by disaster capitalists. The recent report, which I saw covered a lot on national news today, was conducted by furriners. Our most deprived areas have been given loads of EU development money. I know this because I've seen a lot of it across the country in person.
When you have been duped by spivs, you deal with it by not letting them get their way any more.

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