AIBU to think that if the government stopped or paused Brexit, it is highly unlikely there would be massive 'civil' unrest ?

[frumpety]

I have heard people say that if Brexit was stopped or even paused there would be riots and mass civil unrest as a result. I honestly don't think there would be, I know a lot of people would be annoyed or angry.

Would any leave voter on here seriously consider rioting ?

BorisBogtrotter - "Well actually if the WTO rejects the current UK proposals for schedules and the UK has to resubmit some with less advantageous terms for the UK, yes it will effect the ability to trade."

Oh, the WTO exists to make trade more difficult. Right.

Only about 6% of all tax credits are claimed by families with one EU national in them. Its unlikely that these low wages are supported with tax credits.

Sorry I can't really see the point in the UK importing large numbers of migrant workers to a high-wage and -general cost of living economy to pick pretty low-value strawberries by hand.

Maybe ask the farmers/unions who've been worrying and complaining about the consequences of losing migrant workers.

still not providing evidence, just assertions.

hahah I have done so repeatedly.

"Oh, the WTO exists to make trade more difficult. Right."

The WTO appears not to be just waving the UK's schedules through and its extremely likely that the schedules will need to be revised, most likely to the detriment of the UK.

What happens when a country has a dispute lodged against it at the WTO?

No idea, probably a toothless body, but not what you said initially. We would have WTO deals, right we've all heard about the easiest deals in history and all done in an afternoon, from people who are now busy jumping ship, not getting stuck into negotiating.

Have you heard of JIT systems - they have been around for about 30 years now - the lorries and containers are the warehouses. The Govt must have had some reason for telling firms to start stockpiling! Or you have heard too about the plans to turn the motorways in Kent into giant lorry parks. I wonder why - a fun thing to do I suppose.

Earlier this year, do you recall how KFC mucked up its chicken distribution? It didn't affect me in the slightest, but it shows how quickly systems can be disrupted.

....and the effect on the UK getting agreement with those countries for those "easy as pie" trade agreements will be......???

...... it will make them much more difficult and the UK will be known as a country not to be trusted. Not a good look for a country wishing to make friends around the world

Just like reneging on the GFA - why bother signing International Agreements with a country which just turns its back on them when the going gets tough?

I think we are talking to Patrick Minford or one of his followers here: someone who doesn't mind seeing the demise of UK farming and manufacturing, as a long as a few people make their millions His ignorance is quite amusing if it weren't so serious

The UK as a whole is not a resource rich country (especially if you take Scotland out of the equation ). It made its fortune on the back of the resources of the Empire, which, in case you hadn't noticed, no longer exists

I think you are right.

We are talking to someone who thinks reading a Minford produced piece is akin to understanding economics.

If we can trade with who we like regardless of terms, what's the point of them?

At the start of the industrial revolution we would have been quite resource rich with coal and tin, and other minerals - but those days have gone.

There's something slightly familiar about the style of the posts. But that could just be the posting style of the Winning People.

BorisBogtrotter - "BTW you know under WTO terms, the NHS is a state subsidy?"

Oh! Now that's a big one (fib that is). EU state-aid rules are far, far stricter than WTO state aid rules. I'm quite sure that if the NHS survived the EU it'll survive the WTO.

Well done! You win the prize for the biggest whopper of the day.

You're right Peregrina - I should've added that England has used up those natural resources it did once have And shut its factories and not invested in the people.

Although dh has pointed out that we do still have plenty of coal Oh wait , the deep mines have been closed and are now flooded and no-one wants open cast mining on their doorsteps.

I read that ridiculous Grauniad article about 10,000 pallets of turkeys and 20,000 pallets of puddings being stored at the chilled warehouse. Turkeys and puddings needing to be stored in the run up to Christmas! Who would have thunk it?
The situation being reported with regard to warehousing is not Chritsmas-related, but is being directly attributed to Brexit, with waiting lists for space going well beyond Christmas. This is according to the chief Executive of the Food Storage and Distribution Federation, as opposed to some random person on an internet forum.

More whoppers for you @OutsideInTheGarden ?

DarlingNikita - "Maybe ask the farmers/unions who've been worrying and complaining about the consequences of losing migrant workers."

Sorry, I don't care about subsidy-junky farmers running an otherwise ludicrous business model that only works by importing low-wage immigrants. Perhaps farmers should invest in machines to pick the produce. They do elsewhere. Just WTF are we doing paying large numbers of imported people to pick low-value produce.

I could maybe see the justification if we were giving employment to local British residents rather than letting them sit on the dole but to actually import your entire workforce is madness on stilts. If you have to do that then you don't have a viable business model.
Please prove to me that it wouldn't be economically far more efficient for the nation for the farmer to F-off and grow the produce in Poland or somesuch place.

...... it will make them much more difficult and the UK will be known as a country not to be trusted. Not a good look for a country wishing to make friends around the world

Not one which a declining power can get away with. China yes, Russia and USA maybe.

Prettybird - "...... it will make them much more difficult and the UK will be known as a country not to be trusted. Not a good look for a country wishing to make friends around the world"

Once again, companies and individuals trade. Personally I am most displeased with the historical mendaciousness and human rights abuse of the Chinese Government.

Funnily enough I often buy things that have "Made in China" stamped on them.

Of course many people who don't like the way a regime conducts its affairs boycott goods from that country.

Prettybird - "Just like reneging on the GFA - why bother signing International Agreements with a country which just turns its back on them when the going gets tough?"

Nothing about the UK leaving the EU is in breach of the GFA. Instead of repeatedly making such assertions please point out the bit it breaches. It's not a long document (about 80 pages IIRC). Go off and read it and let me know what you find.

All you people have got is emotional foot-stamping but no actual substance to your emotional outbursts. I get that you for some reason have amorous feelings for an supra-national political organisation and that some of you might have romantic feelings for the handsome Mr Barnier but I just want to see some actual real-world economic debate not just predictions of what you want to happen because people dared to not agree with you.

Where were all you people when it came to EU elections? Bugger all people voted in them and a large proportion of those who did voted UKIP, an avowedly anti-EU party.
Come on - where was your love for the EU at the EU Parliament elections? Why the sudden love for it?

Peregrina - "Have you heard of JIT systems - they have been around for about 30 years now - the lorries and containers are the warehouses. "

Don't invoke JIT for the infamous mini-camshaft crossing the Channel 3 or four times. JIT would be turning in it's grave if it saw that.

Or 5S, Kanban or any other Japanese efficiency method for that matter.

prettybird - "The UK as a whole is not a resource rich country (especially if you take Scotland out of the equation ). It made its fortune on the back of the resources of the Empire, which, in case you hadn't noticed, no longer exists "
Oh God! Another "we don't have any natural resources and don't make anything anybody wants anymore" cultist.

Well we manage to be the 4-6th largest exporting nation on the planet earth still, as well as being about the 6th largest economy on the planet to boot.
Blathering on about Empire (which I only ever hear Remainers talking about) really doesn't help your case. Best estimates of the benefit of Empire to the UK run at about 6% of GDP by 1914. Essentially the UK could have done just as well without a formal Empire as they did with it. I did study Economic history and industrialisation quite extensively. Meanwhile you trot out tired old anti-British tropes you read in the Grauniad.
You'll be bringing up the slave trade next (and blaming that all on the British, conveniently ignoring the massive role played by Arabs and the Africans themselves in the whole affair whilst also omitting the fact that it was the British that stamped it out before everyone else, though the Americans resisted for a long time).

Glad you have heard of JIT at least.

Where was I when it came to EU elections? Voted in them every time. Thankfully got two decent people, Catherine Bearder and Keith Taylor in, plus a couple of Labour ones. Thankfully, I was not responsible for Farage or Hannan gaining seats.

Peregrina - "At the start of the industrial revolution we would have been quite resource rich with coal and tin, and other minerals - but those days have gone."

The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones. The coal age didn't end because we ran out of coal either. There's lots still down there, we just don't use it. It'll be the same with oil soon. Scotland is welcome to the sludge under it's seas. I'm not sure what use they'll find for it. Maybe ask some hunter-gathers what they do with the flint they find lying around that nobody wants anymore.

You really love your stereo types don't you. And can't engage without frothing .