to ask if anyone else is a bit puzzled about what's going on with Brexit

[ElfinStardust]

because I bloody well am!

Have I got the following right:
We're told the Withdrawal Agreement is 95% agreed.

but
Northern Ireland is the sticking point.
The EU don't like Theresa May's proposed solution. (Is that Chequers?)
Most of the Tories don't like TM's proposed solution, nor do Labour, SNP, the DUP. Good to see our esteemed representatives united on something
but
They don't seem to like the EU's proposal either. Everyone is going to vote against everything which will lead to No Deal = catastrophe.

Jeremy Corbyn says Brexit can't be stopped. Keir Starmer says it can Good to see HM Opposition united

I'm no catastrophiser but time really is running out if we want a Withdrawal Agreement in place before 29th March.

So WTAF is going on and how is it going to be resolved?

and please don't be a twat and go running to MNHQ demanding they move this thread to the Brexit board. It's far too wordy over there and I'd like a nice simple chat about it for I am a nice simple person.

I don't understand why some are saying that it can be stopped. I seem to remember that when we have the 2 year notice to leave that it was reported that it could be undone. I'd that is the case then our elected representatives need to sort things out and stop arguing against each other just to score points

How do you solve the border question? That’s the problem that had no legal solution.

Don't have a fucking clue and I don't see how it's going to be resolved in 4 and a bit months either.

Not puzzled. Worried.

ceecee32 - The chap who wrote Article 50 has said it can be revoked. I believe there is a court case due to be heard at the end of the month to ask for a legal ruling on this.

EvaReady - don't you think TMay should have thought of that before she hurtled us into triggering A50? Better still shouldn't David Cameron have thought of that before he led us into this divisive referendum?

My take on it is:

1. We can't without legal means solve the Irish Border solution. Plus ANY way of doing it could kick off conflict again.

1. We absolutely CAN stop Brexit if 48% of people decided when polled said they would vote Lib Dem at the next election. Instead, even though the Lib Dem's are the only party saying their anti-Brexit people are not voting or saying they would vote when polled.

This is obviously because of recent historical reasons. Most people want the Tories or the Labour Party to represent their views - and even when there's no coherent thought or consensus in either of those parties people still choose not to change and instead try to shoehorn their own views into the two main parties.

Change is hard. But all it would take is millions of people to decide that the Lib Dem's are a good option.

It's actually very simple OP. We, the British public, are being coaxed to the edge of a cliff with promises of deals and solutions and international trade agreements. At the end of March we'll be pushed off the cliff and vultures like Boris Johnson and Jacob RM will have their fill of the pickings. I think they call it chaos capitalism.

There was never any real intention of brokering a deal with the EU, it's not naivity or incompetence - this was the plan all along.

@EvaReady - How do you solve the border question? That’s the problem that had no legal solution.

The only way the UK can comply with the GFA is to either have the border in the Irish Sea, with NI staying in the CU and the CM or for all of the UK to stay in the CU and the CM.

@LaurieFairyCake - We can't without legal means solve the Irish Border solution.

Not sure what you mean by that? Any solution is a legal solution surely, whether it is soft/hard/no deal?

@BarbarianMum That unfortunately sounds all too possible.

Yup. Everyone puzzled including the tossers who have kindly brought us to this total pile of manure. We all need a shovel.

Cee cee I have wondered this. At the time everyone was adamant that once we'd triggered article 50 we had at most two years then we were out, like it or not. Now that has been much changed. But the thing is, this is unprecedented. No one really knew.

I think the government are equally puzzled.

It’s an omnishambles. Labour are meant to be the opposition. Well bloody oppose something!!!!

The pigheadedness of TM and JC is just unbelievable. “We have set ourselves on this track because the will of the English (not British) people is to do so. We’ve discovered that the road does not go around the cliff edge, it actually just goes off it into nothingness and some big spikey rocks but we’ve decided on this road so we will will see it through. It’s what the (English) people want” #notallEnglishpeople

It's 95% sorted, but that might as well be 0% without agreement on the Irish border.

We absolutely CAN stop Brexit if 48% of people decided when polled said they would vote Lib Dem at the next election. Instead, even though the Lib Dem's are the only party saying their anti-Brexit people are not voting or saying they would vote when polled.

Please keep in mind the Lib Dem's history of changing their mind once they get into power. If they were to go into a coalition - which is the only way they will get any power - they'll do whatever they're told to.

Barbarian mum, right as always. No other way to go. Reminds me of a documentary I saw involving a woman embracing the Iraq war as a wonderful opportunity to make money by setting up a catering stall for troops. Lots of money to be made from chaos, top to bottom.

People just aren't going to trust LibDems ever again. Which might be unfair given the number of second chances the Tories and Labour have been given. We need MPs with a conscience to break away from their parties (no I've not been drinking!) and stop us crashing out of the EU.

The only way the UK can comply with the GFA is to either have the border in the Irish Sea, with NI staying in the CU and the CM or for all of the UK to stay in the CU and the CM. But none of that is an acceptable solution either! It's a fucking mess! Mind you doesn't Boris et all think Britain should just say fuck it to the GFA and fuck it to business....on what planet do those that voted for Brexit think that Boris cares about them either? We need to stop this shit - it was a stupid idea to start with!

So why did we have a referendum if it was known we couldn't leave without breaking the GFA?

So why did we have a referendum if it was known we couldn't leave without breaking the GFA?

Well that's the million dollar question, isn't it? The one no-one seems to be asking.

No-one’s going to trust the Lib Dem’s again.

It's an utter mess. And I for one felt very sad yesterday at the remembrance of the armistice centenary that the UK is now dismantling the alliance with Europe.

Twillow We are not, we will/maybe leaving the EU,

Why did we have a referendum? I honestly think most people thought it was just advisory. Cameron did it to appease the Europhobes in his party; worst that could happen was that the good old public give Johnny Foreigner a bloody nose and make them realise we might Leave The Bastard; dust settles and we all go back to normal. I’ve spoken to a fair few who voted leave but said “we didn’t realise we were actually leaving.....”

Yes, a complete mess. I think rather than faffing about with second referendums or postponing the (unsolvable) problem to 2020, the government should:

a) if they can find a reasonable deal that doesn't leave us worse off, very soon (ie this week), then go ahead and leave, to honour the referendum result if possible

b) if there is no feasible deal to be had which won't wreck the country, then call the whole thing off and stay in (with a massive apology to leave voters for giving them a referendum option that turned out not to be feasible)