to ask if anyone else is a bit puzzled about what's going on with Brexit

[ElfinStardust]

because I bloody well am!

Have I got the following right:
We're told the Withdrawal Agreement is 95% agreed.

but
Northern Ireland is the sticking point.
The EU don't like Theresa May's proposed solution. (Is that Chequers?)
Most of the Tories don't like TM's proposed solution, nor do Labour, SNP, the DUP. Good to see our esteemed representatives united on something
but
They don't seem to like the EU's proposal either. Everyone is going to vote against everything which will lead to No Deal = catastrophe.

Jeremy Corbyn says Brexit can't be stopped. Keir Starmer says it can Good to see HM Opposition united

I'm no catastrophiser but time really is running out if we want a Withdrawal Agreement in place before 29th March.

So WTAF is going on and how is it going to be resolved?

BarbarianMum bit late - its Disaster Capitalism - from Naomi Klein. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=disaster%20capitalism
This definition helps. It also gets started by calling another body undemocratic..

Imo, putting party before country like that is one of the worst things a PM can do.

Well, hopefully the "Brexit years" will impress that on all the non-Tory governments we have in the future. Who knows, we might end up with a government for the country. There has to be some upside to Brexit, beyond a blue passport.

DTSMUMBOJO have you thought about seeing someone?

@Poodles1980 - Poll the people of Northern Ireland and see what they want. That might solve the problem very quickly if they don’t want to remain part of the UK

If the UK hangs on to the DUP et al, we'd consider it in the Republic. Otherwise, no thanks, sort out your own mess first.

And having fucked it all up, he fucked off to his fucking shepherd's hut, leaving everyone else to pick up the pieces. Fuckwit.

You missed out humming... he hummed a little ditty as he resigned if you recall.

It’s all shit.

I'm utterly baffled OP.

What worries me is that if at this point we stayed in the EU, it is very unlikely to be on the exact same terms we were in before all this happened. Basically it would have to be on the EU's terms, it wouldn't just be as if this all never happened. Those terms could then well end up being major cause for resentment and anger, led by the people who voted Leave in the first place.

Whichever way you look at it, the whole thing is an unholy mess, it should never have been allowed to happen and Cameron should be held legally accountable for having acted so unbelievably irresponsibly in post. I honestly don't know at this point how we make the best of it.

At this point, it is starting to feel like some gigantic practical joke, like they are actually trying to do all this as badly as humanly possible.

YANBU to ask if anyone else is puzzled.YANBU to be puzzled either. Why would we do this to ourselves.

Juncker is one man who steps down next year

Yes why evaluate a hugely beneficial trading bloc with all the weird fuss about Junker? He's one person.

To evaluate the people involved you need to look at all the roles and how they rotate.

For eg The council presidency rotates on a six-monthly basis, offering each of the member states an equal role.The UK would have been in charge of the council yet again for the second half of 2017. Teresa May chose not to take up her turn, declining her planned role obviously due to the ref.

Junker's term ends soon. We have had plenty of leading roles ....

Roy Jenkins was president of the commission back in the day. To assess roles you need to look at Parliament and Council too.

Past EU elections chose many British presidents. Leading EU Individuals elected have included ...
Roy Jenkins
James Callaghan
Margaret Thatcher ( elected twice)
John Major
Tony Blair (elected twice)

-Lesser known (parliamentary) presidents have included Henry Plumb (Tory MEP) and presidents of the ECJ have included Alexander Mackenzie Stuart ( Scottish judge).

-British ECJ judges have included A. Mackenzie Stuart,
J.P. Warner,
G. Slynn ,
F.G.Jacobs,
K.H. Schiemann,
David Edwards,
Eleanor Sharpston, and Christopher Vajda

Britain not taking up its 2017 presidency of the EU Council was the first key responsibility relinquished following the referendum.

How can anyone logically justify ditching lucrative unrestricted access to a $500 trillion market just because... Junker could have once appeared drunk or arthritic? .

So why did we have a referendum if it was known we couldn't leave without breaking the GFA?

Because David Cameron et al were so up their own arses they never thought for one minute that the majority vote would be to leave.

It does feel a bit "over the edge and into the a abyss" today.

You missed out humming... he hummed a little ditty as he resigned if you recall.

Did he have his fingers in his ears at the same time?

The whole world is laughing at the incompetence of the UK in these negotiations. The UK met their match with the professionalism of the EU. The UK thought their might is right and all that hubris would see them through. NOT happening.

Anyway how could any country that is an Island in a sea of the EU think it would be great to just unhitch, with no plan, no forward planning and no comfort for the populace apart from stockpiling. There are absolutely no positive vibes coming from this conscious or uncounscious uncoupling whatsoever. And if there are any I would love to hear what they are.

So stockpile away folks, get your blue passports, and revel in isolationism.

Putin and Trump are delighted we are leaving. That says it all for me.

Why did the UK have a referendum if they knew it would mean breaking the GFA?

Because countries can change their minds and they can break agreements. They and everyone else have to live with the consequences. The possible consequences of breaking the GFA could be a no deal Brexit with all that entails and a return to political instability and possible violence in NI.

Anyway how could any country that is an Island in a sea of the EU think it would be great to just unhitch, with no plan, no forward planning and no comfort for the populace apart from stockpiling.

Well our Brexit minister didn't seem to realised we were an island for a start

Also our northern Ireland secretary didn't understand about anything whatsoever to do with the nationalists vs the unionists

So....yeah

I don't think they're laughing in Ireland (Northern or the Republic) bofsy

And don’t forget the ERG twat Leave MP that seemed to think he could get an Irish passport just because he was English

Barbarian,

I was referring to those outside the UK. And I agree with you. Their lives are being compromised by an incompetent UK Government. I cannot blame them being totally despondent right now.

There do not seem to be any upsides to leaving without a deal. But the only people that are concerned are those who will be affected. No one in Government seems to care about them at all.

@bofsy1 - I was referring to those outside the UK.

Quick geography lesson - the Republic of Ireland is not in the UK.

theymademejoin.

I know that, but I may have phrased my reply too quickly.

The Northern Ireland Sec is the one you need have a beef with frankly! Shows the total incompetence that abounds.

Let peace continue is my mantra. Nothing else matters now.

Knicknackpaddyflak makes a good point. We seem to be ignoring the reality of what a decision to reverse direction, and try to remain, would mean. We'd have concluded that we cannot realistically leave the EU. That's a pretty scary thought.

@oldwhyno

Why scary? For whom? The hubris of the Tory Party or the UK in general?

I think most people at this stage after two years waiting for the benefits of leaving would most likely just wish to stay and get on with it.

What are the benefits of leaving again? I may have missed all that fanfare over the last two years, my apologies if so.

No one knows....

Apparently it was sovereignty but we had that ..

We'd have concluded that we cannot realistically leave the EU. And while the ROI are in the EU and while NI is part of the UK this is the case. You reap what you sow - many in NI have wanted to leave the UK for many years and return to being part of Ireland and have been prevented by British meddling - it doesn't feel good does it?.

I'm beginning to wonder if we're in the grip of some kind of mass hallucination where we've let the madmen in charge...
I mean, people believe Patrick Minford....I bet he can't believe his luck...