Any Brexiters who have changed your minds....?

[onlyconnect]

If you voted Brexit but would now like to remain, could you call loudly for a second referendum please?
I'm a remainer and see the obvious problems with remainers asking for a second referendum but if former Brexiters were to ask, it would have legitimacy surely.

{But this is beside the point as very many of those who voted leave have no living memory of the British Empire at all. Most people in Sunderland and Cardiff, for example.}
But were happy to take the lie that the UK is a great trading nation and 'rules the world'. They need us more than we need them.

I don’t get the EU is being unreasonable argument for leaving. First off, how are they being unreasonable? They laid out their terms (EU citizens in the UKs rights, the UK boarder in Ireland, and you can’t have access to the SM without FOM) right from the beginning. It’s the UK that’s been pissing about for ages without any understanding or agreement about what they want. How is the EU meant to negotiate with that? Besides if you do feel the EU is being unreasonable how is leaving going to make the situation any better?

Unfortunately the UK has been fed on a diet of 'The EU is crap' and any excuse to ridicule anything coming from the EU, despite UK MEPs and lawmakers being part of the EU decision making process, for many years.
Unless someone in the UK actually communicates directly with people in the EU it is just a nebulous concept so they take no notice.
It is easier to laugh about a 'bent banana' than apply critical thinking.

With regard EU Army. Inside the EU we would have had a veto, many other countries are also against an EU army. Outside the EU we have no veto, if the EU decide to have an army we will be sitting right next to a huge army (extremely unlikely to be created in the first place) protecting the interests of it's members and we have territorial disputes with two of those members. Besides, if an EU army had existed it might have kept us out of Iraq.

I would still vote leave. I questioned the £350m a week to the NHS at the time. I remember Michael Gove being questioned on it. They didn't actually lie, they suggested that the money could be spent on the NHS instead of going to the EU. I would much rather they had put the net figure on the bus rather than the gross figure which didn't help their cause at all.

I only ever took the '350' million to be a suggestion. Like, hey, I found £20 in my old coat, let's spend it on takeaway!
Not an actual promise. It was a reminder that we could choose what we spent it on, once we left.

Getting head spin from all the backpedaling!!

Unless an 'EU army' is intended to be a new venture I would actually expect it to be more of a 'political gathering' of the individual countries existing armies.
Pooling of resources and learning from strategies from states that have had 'issues' with neighbours in the past.
With the 'reliable' nature of Mr Trump, I think Mr Macrons suggestion to form a European military alliance is good.

{ They didn't actually lie, they suggested that the money could be spent on the NHS}.
They could have done this at any time in the many years prior to the vote, they didn't and don't want to spend on the NHS but would rather privatise and sell it to the USA businesses. Plucking a 'hot topic' out of the bag and making it a campaign issue is so cynical. Doubling the figure that the UK actually sends to the EU is further example.

GingerPCatt, I don't understand it either. Claiming that the EU is "punishing" the UK for choosing to leave makes no sense. How do these people think negotiations work? We've chosen to turn ourselves into a direct competitor, so of course the EU is going to act in their best interests.

Although I think the UK should be part of the EU and should never have started this exercise, I now think it should leave and possibly rejoin after a while.
The UK (probably more the English than the rest) mentality of 'we are far superior' with the hangover from the imperialist days is not conducive at a political level to the greatest harmony in Europe.
Thus the UK needs to be out in the cold in it's pants to get a proper sense of world reality. In areas such as science, where collaboration with others has produced excellent work, the UK is up with the best. This is being let down by too many politicians and whichever 'class' are still under the illusion that the UK has an empire which was largely gained by brutal means, at a time when slaughtering whole villages of people was 'permissible'.
It is time to win 'hearts and minds'.

Absolutely this. So many people comment on that the EU should give the UK the deal that they want. No, the EU doesn't have to do anything for the UK. A deal will only be made when it is beneficial for both sides. There is so much arrogance on how important the UK is for the EU. Someone commented that if Heathrow is grounded, the world is grounded. Well, Heathrow was pretty much grounded during the icelandic volcano outburst (as was a large part of the EU) and the economy could take the hit. Also, the EU has more stuff to do than listen to what the UK wants to do regarding Brexit. The UK has been an enormous time waster in this.

{We've chosen to turn ourselves into a direct competitor,}
About a nineth of the EU population and continually demanding cake.
Although they probably wouldn't have, but with the money that Northern Europe particularly is being forced to spend on the UK 'pissing contest', they could have made a decent inroad to helping Greece and Portugal.

I'd like to add to my post that the comments that I wrote about were on different Brexit threads on MN.

MIL has changed her mind after BIL pointed out that if his wife had to leave the country, he and any children they had would be going with her. Plus those children would not have British citizenship as he and SIL would choose her country for the advantages of being in the EU, and it won't allow duel citizenship.

FIL is stubborn and still thinks he is going to have to spend less time queueing at the doctors surgery. I assume he is ignoring the possibility that his 20+ tablets he has to take each day might be hard to come by.

Someone commented that if Heathrow is grounded, the world is grounded

Perhaps they have Raab's understanding of geography and trade. Anyone heard of Schiphol?

With the 'reliable' nature of Mr Trump, I think Mr Macrons suggestion to form a European military alliance is good.

Yes, I don't really get the anxiety about a European army. It is more to do with better cooperation between countries - people aren't suddenly going to be called up! And why is it better to be a small country on the outside of any European-wide initiative?

{people aren't suddenly going to be called up!}
If anything 'kicks off' it is far better to have the various armies across Europe 'prepared' and ready to go rather than a mad panic to get a command set up.

people aren't suddenly going to be called up

Actually somebody I know voted Leave because she believe there would be an EU army with conscription. She's also a real anti vaxer and believes the earth is flat (not even joking, she does, nothing can persuade her otherwise).

As at 2015 British army personnel was cut back due to austerity by more than 20,000 - three years ahead of target.(Ministry of Defence figuress*)

The Army 2020 plan was to replace those who were paid off with redundancy packages with volunteer reservists but that process was an abject failure.

The under capacity due to the ruthless redundancies and subsequent recruitment crisis is so acute only three years later we are now recruiting from India, Kenya and Fiji etc

Had half the country not chosen to force ditching EU membership we could have participated in and helped lead an EU force ( if it ever happened) in addition to each member state's individual capacity? x

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/austerity-british-army-recruitment-crisis-philip-hammond-cuts-capita-outsourcing-not-enough-trained-a7825626.html

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www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/05/foreign-nationals-to-be-allowed-to-join-british-army

I regret voting leave. The remembrance services reminded me that we're better off sticking together. I'd love the chance to vote again and change my vote.

@saganorenscarandcoat , please tell your MP. Right now people who changed their position are seen as a myth.

I urge everyone who regrets their vote (either way) to email their MP. Also, ask any family member/friend who has changed their mind to do the same. This is becoming urgent now and is easy to do - just follow this link, input your postcode and click on ‘message’...

www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/

I’ve heard of it peregrina... but I can’t spell it

Used to be a 'favourite place' for me at 6:30 on a Monday morning!

I now think it should leave and possibly rejoin after a while. Because obviously we'll get a much better deal than we have now. We already have the best deal of any of the other member states, we'd negotiated ourselves all kinds of exclusions - from the Euro and Shengen for instance. We somehow managed to be in, while keeping one foot firmly out. Now we are trying to negotiate a deal in which we are out, with one foot tentatively in - it's not happening. But rest assured, once we are out we are out - there's no going back and certainly not to the privileged position we currently occupy.

I’m sure most of those emailing their MP’s saying they regret their leave vote actually voted remain.
Of all the people I know who voted leave not one regrets it. But some remainers I know would now vote leave!

There can’t be another vote.