Corbyn - We can't stop Brexit

[SoloD]

Corbyn (just let me remind you all that his highest educational attainment was two Es at A level) has been interviewed by a German Newspaper Der Speigel.

In it he was asked about Brexit, his response was this.

“We can’t stop it,” he said. “The referendum took place. Article 50 has been triggered. What we can do is recognize the reasons why people voted Leave.”

Leaving aside the fact that yes we can stop Brexit at any time. Does that not clearly show where his thinking is that. He is a Brexiteer, he is on the same side as Farage, JRM, Boris etc. And we will do serious damage to this country AGAINST the wish of the majority of people.

The question is what will Labour MPs do?

"There is nothing wrong with being concerned that the culture of your small town is rapidly eroded by mass immigration."

There isn't of course, but we must then take up what rapid erosion means.

The smallest town in the UK with the highest immigration level is Boston where about 13 % of the town are immigrants. The town increased by 15% between 2001 and 2011 ) or grew by 1.5% per year)

However the unemployment rate is very low. Wages are low but have always been historically, and have not decreased with increased immigration.

93% of chidren get their first choice school, 99.5% get first or second choice.

Even then having 87% of your town being White British is not being "eroded" and use of such language is hyperbole. Areas with much higher migrant levels voted remain.

I think the issue of immigration is down to the way it is handled both at a large and small scale.
An observation from visiting other countries is that there is a percentage that are 'tolerated/welcomed'. If those arriving are prepared to integrate, learn the language and generally fit in, rather than insisting their original culture is brought on the original population, then a larger number can be sustained. At the higher level, infrastructure (schools, doctors etc) needs to keep pace.
Influences such as wealth and 'aspirations' also play a part.
I am now an 'immigrant'. I don't expect to be treated as 'one of the locals' as I am hampered by my inability to speak much of the new language, but I want to learn, and I accept that I am at a disadvantage. I don't think Brexit news has reached this part yet as the locals don't go into peals of laughter when I see them.

"At the higher level, infrastructure (schools, doctors etc) needs to keep pace."

It has been proven that immigrants from the EU don't have a negative impact on services.

But how then does this explain that areas with high levels of immigrants voted Remain, and other areas, who wouldn't know what an immigrant looked like, voted leave?
Absolutely.

House prices are high because too many rich folks have second homes and empty homes.
House prices are high because council houses have been sold to speculators.
There is no need to concrete the countryside - just bring the 500,000 empty and second homes back into use.
But that would hurt the rich so it will not happen.

As for immigrant workers in small towns - when Brits are willing to pick veg and wipe bottoms in nursing homes, the immigrants will not be needed.
But for the last 100 years they have been.

I was meaning improved infrastructure when necessary. For a village that is not bursting at the seams to accommodate a couple of new families is no problem. For a significant influx, possibly needing help with language at first then it may be a problem. Of course it is conditional. What is an issue in some Northern towns is that as the area may be 'depressed' with already high unemployment getting proper resources is often an issue which is to a fair extent GOVERNMENT responsibility.

What is an issue in some Northern towns is that as the area may be 'depressed' with already high unemployment getting proper resources is often an issue which is to a fair extent GOVERNMENT responsibility.

They aren't the ones with immigrants, because the immigrants go to where the work is. Which I know is not the story told - they come here to gain council housing and draw benefits.

And if Brits aren’t prepared to work for buttons picking fruit, and immigrants are, what do you think happens? Wages at the bottom end stagnate.

British people would pick fruit for a proper wage. Then maybe food prices go up. We already spend the least per head on food in Europe.

And where do you build more houses? On every patch of spare land. Yes government needs to invest but at a certain point we have to accept that huge numbers arriving each year will impact every aspect of society.

So the next time you see a housing development on fields ask yourself where else can we house people?!

I lived in a Northern town where a significant number were wanting the roadsigns in Urdu.

"Wages at the bottom end stagnate."

Actually no they don't all of the evidence shows that you need a massive 10 percentage point increase in immigration to make wages for the lowest paid fall by 1.8%.

"British people would pick fruit for a proper wage."

It is a relatively decent wage for unskilled work, but its also hard graft and long hours, the current average wage paid is about £8 an hour.

We only grow about 45% of all of the food that we eat so the food pricing is not that much to do with it.

90% of the UK is unbuilt on.

There is actually plenty of land and space for housing but the Government is happy for the (mostly) Tory members and donors to suggest this is not the case. There is relatively little incentive to redevelop 'brown field' sites because it costs money. Developers have wheedled their way out of building 'affordable' homes for years, the market is completely rigged.

A significant number of British people wouldn't be able to pick fruit, decent wage or not, because we have an aging population and they are not fit enough to do so.

We have been importing migrant workers to do agricultural work for centuries.

The UK currently has close to full employment.

The unemployed and underemployed mostly don't live near where fruit is picked and even if they do, many won't be fit enough.

Almost by definition, in a country with a generally low rate of unemployment but pockets of high unemployment, the unemployed are the least mobile - they have kids, houses, commitments that they can't just drop to go and pick cherries in Kent for a few weeks. And if they were mobile, they would probably prefer less physical work.

The answer for farmers is to (a) produce less and (b) automate more.

The housing crisis is not caused by a lack of space or by a lack of planning permission granted.

The house builders get planning permission for land, then land bank it so that they under build, the price for houses rises, and then they sell.

If Britain is overcrowded, why is 2/3 of Hampshire too empty to make buses and broadband economic?

I came from the North, I thought buses went out shortly after the Victorian period, and what is broadband, is it some sort of wide belt?

Buses in York are a lot better and cheaper than in Winchester

{The answer for farmers is to (a) produce less and (b) automate more.}
Ordinarily and for the rest of the world, yes but the UK is leaving and the 'import food' model may need revising.

If we produce less, how do we feed ourselves?

Peregrina
Well the bulk of the population eat a lot less, the NHS will have a sigh of relief

If we produce less, how do we feed ourselves?

More expensively.

But that is what people voted for ~shrug~.

Bear - Just heard Tony Blair make the case for JC to stand up, state he'll vote down the deal, call for a GE and if not that a vote... his argument was compelling, so i ve changed my mind.
Corbyn does need to step up or be forever (also) held responsible for Brexit too.

Just to dispel the "well we could all do with cutting down on our food" myth.
You need a balanced diet. Even if you are eating less. If people don't have a balanced diet they get sick. The NHS doesn't win where there isn't a balanced diet available.

his argument was compelling, so i ve changed my mind.
Corbyn does need to step up or be forever (also) held responsible for Brexit too.

Eh?

You said last week Corbyn needed to vote this down, then today you said you didn’t think he would, then Blair speaks and you change your mind back.

I’m baffled.

If Labour vote down the deal and we get a subsequent GE and Labour win (another Brexit vote if they win is certainly not a given) then what on earth will be their plan be? I do actually find that prospect quite scary.