Brexiteers, if there was a 'People's Vote' how would you vote?

[millsbynight]

For me? I'd flatly vote No Deal.

Would others vote to stay in the EU or agree to Teresa May's deal?

Everyone I know who voted Leave would still vote Leave (the same goes for those who voted Remain) so I'd be really curious to see what the outcome of a 2nd referendum would generate.

But @OutsideInTheGarden , where is Factory A right now?

BorisBogtrotter - I'm not sure that source you posted says what you think it says. To quote: "Between 2003 and 2017, the ratio of trade with EU-28 partners by trade with extra EU partners decreased for all but three Member States. Decreases of more than 200 percentage points (p.p.) were found in the Czech Republic (- 212 p.p.), Estonia (- 217 p.p.) and Luxembourg (-309 p.p.). Only in Bulgaria (+ 22 p.p.), Malta (+21 p.p.) and Sweden (+2 p.p.) did this ratio increase. "

So the single market has seen the ratio of intra-EU/extra-EU trade fall for 25 out of 28 members. This shows the success of the frictionless single-market how exactly? For this to happen either intra-EU trade is falling by nominal value, extra-EU trade is rising by nominal value, or both are rising but extra-EU is rising faster, or some combination of all of those. Whichever it is what it doesn't prove is that the single market is doing wonders for intra-EU trade.

Once again, nice try, but no cigar.

Any chance being a member of the EU allows you to make trade deals with third countries because you become part of a big gang? Is that just an outside possibility? @OutsideInTheGarden

motheroffourdragons - "You're talking cars here aren't you?

Do you have any idea of the amount of investment required to change from Factory B to Factory A type manufacturing, even if it were a cheaper option? (which it isn't but hey ho).

And nobody is investing here at the moment."

No, I'm talking about a hypothetical Factory A and B. They make widgets. Which one is the more efficient? A or B? Clue - it's A.

As for the amount of effort required to change from being Factory B to being Factory A, well the market will take care of that when Factory B goes bust, especially when Factory C opens and copies the best-practice of Factory A (because let's face it, who in their right minds would set up using Factory B as a model?)

motheroffourdragons - plenty of people are investing at the moment - one of the Japanese manufacturers invested a further £2.5 Bn in the UK since the referendum. Inward FDI in the UK in the first half of 2018 (provisional figures) is the 2nd highest in the world (and higher than any EU27 country).

Stop making silly emotional statements based on what you want to happen rather than what is actually happening.

Ah yes, the market will take care of it. Am I supposed to sit and wait for the market to put food on the table when I want it there. Or should I buy extra in advance just in case the market can't quite manage it today.

"The ratio of trade with EU-28 partners by trade with extra EU partners decreased for all but three Member States"

That doesn't prove your point about EU intra trade being hampered by the single market. All it shows is that the ratio of trade between EU members and other countries increased.

"So the single market has seen the ratio of intra-EU/extra-EU trade fall for 25 out of 28 members. "
Which would be expected as the world trade over this period increased, and the EU signed trade deals with outside other countries

Early Learning Centre stuff again I'm afraid.

Since there is a slowdown in Europe and overcapacity for car production, the UK leaving, especially with NO deal would be an excellent getout for European manufactures as they could simply lock the doors and walk away. With some of the proposals by members of the ERG cutting workers rights could mean they would leave with no compensation, although it is likely that the Europeans would make some sort of offer.
The UK needs a 'deal'. That deal is the one Mrs May has in her hand. The EU have waited over 2 years to get it this far and have said that it is the only deal.
Any other suggestions are simply like wasps around a jamjar at a picnic, noise. The UK has 3 choices, bad, pretty bad and catastrophe.

BTW your factory analogy is rubbish too, and ignores the efficiencies provided by JIT.

With the parts in transit using the JIT model, it largely eliminates warehousing as they are effectively warehouses on wheels.
The cars built are practically 'custom made' in that when a showroom or customer orders a car to a certain specification, all of the 'customisable' options can be summoned from their source and arrive to be assembled within a day or two.

BTW your use of the trade ratios exposes you rather.

Its the same point Boris used to make about South Korea and our trade increasing, but forgetting that its down to the FTA signed in 2010.

bellinisurge - "How did the UN keep the peace in NI? That's right, they weren't allowed in.
The GFA keeps the peace in NI."

Where did I claim that the UN kept the peace in NI? Please criticise me on things I actually said instead of making things up. I suppose if you can't refute what I said then setting up a strawman to knock down is the next best thing.

You said that the UN is the chief peace keeper. I was merely drawing your attention to a bloody and local war where the UN didn't keep the peace.

bellinisurge - "Ah yes, the market will take care of it. Am I supposed to sit and wait for the market to put food on the table when I want it there. Or should I buy extra in advance just in case the market can't quite manage it today."

The 'invisible hand' of the market puts food on your table now, it supplies you with medicines and all of your needs. There is nobody sitting down and centrally controlling the supply of food to your table and yet you are not starving.

You Remainers are really such a bunch of worry-heads. However have you managed so far in life. Oh yes, I forgot, it was the EU that looked after you.

@OutsideInTheGarden , I'm a prepper. I steer away from relying on government and The Shops and certainly the EU from looking after me. But , hey, don't let reality stop your fantasy.

motheroffourdragons - no, you are confusing yourself by trying to expand the model by adding in a few extra factors whilst leaving out other necessary ones. If you change too many factors at once you can't isolate the effect of an individual one. Also if you don't add in important factors your model becomes invalid.

That's why I kept the model simple, it was intended to show that, ceteris paribus, Factory A is always going to be more efficient than Factory B. That much is incontrovertible.

bellinisurge - well considering how worried your are about everyday life in the UK I suggest you stock up on baked beans and shotguns.
Alternatively seek psychological help.

So where is Factory A? Can a business owner get the money they need to set it up? Are there enough local customers to buy from Factory A?
What if the customers aren't there any more?
Is Factory A flexible enough to respond to market changes and still make money?

@OutsideInTheGarden already stocked up on decent food, thanks. You don't really understand uk prepping if you think it's about baked beans and shot guns. Sounds like you aren't really very flexible or open minded. Must try harder.

BorisBogtrotter - "That doesn't prove your point about EU intra trade being hampered by the single market. All it shows is that the ratio of trade between EU members and other countries increased. "

Right, so trade between EU countries and countries not in the single market has grown faster (both in nominal and relative terms) than trade between EU members and you think this shows that the single market is a great success? Ok. What can I say? I've got to go now, I've got some more head shaking to do.

BorisBogtrotter - "BTW your factory analogy is rubbish too, and ignores the efficiencies provided by JIT."

Factory A uses JIT as well as Factory B. Ceteris paribus. Look it up.

bellinisurge - Ceteris paribus. Stop adding in extra variables.
Ceteris paribus, which is the more efficient factory, A or B?
If we can get over this learning hurdle we can make progress. Come on, one more push...