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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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Icantreachthepretzels · 25/10/2018 18:04

Momentum consultation on Brexit here.

I'm not momentum and I'm not joining - so I haven't seen the wording of the consultation - but I read their suggested answers. I'm not too sure about their suggested' we support a public vote in all circumstances' answer. Maybe they just mean 'if there is a general election or not' - but if they mean 'regardless of the options on the ballot paper' then they are wasting their time, and making things worse. I certainly don't support a vote if the option is deal or crash out. Option to remain should always be at the forefront of any push for a third second referendum.

KennDodd · 25/10/2018 18:05

Oh God! Page 40 already!

Icantreachthepretzels · 25/10/2018 18:08

Turns out I'd already signed that medication petition. I'm ahead of myself Smile.

KennDodd · 25/10/2018 18:09

@Icantreachthepretzels

I'm not a momentum member either, tempted to join just to fill in the consultation, I'll see how much it is. I think Labour (Momentum) are the key to ending this shitshow.

frankiestein401 · 25/10/2018 18:10

The judiciary can damn well do as they are told
nobody can tell the judiciary what to do? certainly not the executive and
i dont see how the legislature could?

DGRossetti · 25/10/2018 18:14

nobody can tell the judiciary what to do? certainly not the executive and i dont see how the legislature could

It's called "passing laws".

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 18:14

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3405250-Westminstenders-Crisis-What-Crisis?watched=1
New thread...

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SwedishEdith · 25/10/2018 18:14

Agree with your comments on Kent, SingingBabooshkaBadly. I think it must be hell being a Remainer living in a Leave area - feeling so out of kilter with your neighbours. But you're right that most areas still have big chunk of people who voted the opposite way - lots of Leave areas still have lots of Remain voters.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 25/10/2018 18:30

Thank you Swedish. Luckily I live in a great town with a huge contingent of open-minded, intelligent, friendly people. Even so, I kept my Invarietate Concordia Tshirt and EU flag hidden on my walk to the station last Saturday morning!

Callmecordelia · 25/10/2018 18:30

SingingBabooshkaBadly thank you. I live near you and it was not nice to see the chuckling up thread. I am very, very worried. I did live here in 2015, and actually spent quite a bit of time then on Operation Stack threads, helping mumsnetters get to the shuttle on time for their holidays. It was very difficult to live a normal life, and it was hell for DH who commutes (still does) on the M20. If there is no deal it will make 2015 look like a picnic.

I am, quite honestly, terrified. The M20 roadworks are pretty in your face. It's hard not to be worried when the major arterial route near you has people working on it day and night "upgrading it to a smart motorway" when we all know what's really going on. And the worst of it? We can't talk to anyone about it, just in case they're a leaver. I was visiting a friend in Oxford and met someone wearing an EU pin. I wouldn't dare wear that here, I'd make myself a target for abuse. During the referendum DH wouldn't let me put up a remain poster in case our property was damaged.

It's really, really not a good place to be, and while I appreciate we all need a laugh at the moment, I find it hard to see the joke.

Violetparis · 25/10/2018 18:31

Agree SingingBabooshkaBadly. I've seen similar comments from Remainers being dismissive about the North without any acknowlegement that many major cities in the North had a majority for Remain.

Peregrina · 25/10/2018 18:39

I live near you and it was not nice to see the chuckling up thread.

I am one who was guilty. I think it was perhaps a way of trying to get Leavers to own up to what they have voted for, although with a couple of honourable exceptions, this seems a forlorn hope.

By the same token though, I am a pensioner, who voted Remain, and I constantly see pensioners being blamed for the leave vote in less than pleasant forms. I distance myself, because I know I didn't, nor did most of the other pensioners I knew. Still, two wrongs don't make a right.

Motheroffourdragons · 25/10/2018 18:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Violetparis · 25/10/2018 18:43

I hate how divisive Brexit has made the UK Sad

Mrsr8 · 25/10/2018 18:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Callmecordelia · 25/10/2018 18:57

Violetparis me too.

Peregrina up until a few months ago I'd have just given a wry smile. Now preparations are happening and a deal seems further away it's harder and harder to hear. Particularly as we will be personally so badly affected.

I should have said it's really not a good place psychologically to be. It's a fantastic place to live or visit (while you still can without being stuck in traffic!). It's beautiful here, living by the sea is wonderful, I have made many, many good friends and it's my home and I love it. I hope that doesn't change in March. I really, really hope that I'm wrong and the Leavers are right.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 18:59

Anything to do with Monday 12 November being the date on which the govt will start full blast prep for no deal ?

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 25/10/2018 19:08

Peregrina, thank you for replying. I don’t think it was your comment. I may have missed yours as I was trying to catch up rather quickly.

I completely agree with you re older voters. Funnily enough, I was going to mention this in my post but sort of ran out of steam (it’s been a tough week...). I am not a pensioner but I am in my early 50s and even at this age I feel I’m being judged as a possible leaver by some (especially living in Kent - a double whammy!). I do despair a bit of the blanket generalisations - young Scot equals good Ramainer, old Essex resident equals ill-informed leaver.

There was a perfectly delightful woman of about 80 interviewed in the street on our local evening news. She had voted Remain as had her two cousins of 86 and 90. All were very upset at the result. Most would assume that she, as an 80YO Dover resident, had probably voted Leave.

I know a good number of Remain voting pensioners. When my in-laws went home after staying the weekend I thanked them for coming as it had meant I could go on the March after all. SFIL (85) said they were only too happy too as he and MiL (86) felt I was marching for them too.

CallmeCordelia it’s very scary. We could be a mini-moral-support group if you like. I love your username btw. Anne of Green Gables is my favourite children’s book Smile

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 25/10/2018 19:29

I hate how divisive Brexit has made the UK
Violetparis Yes, no matter what happens now this divisiveness looks certain to continue for such a long time. I don’t really remember anyone I know expressing any feelings one way or another about the EU before the referendum was called. Now we’re all tearing ourselves apart over it. Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 19:54

I correspond with a friend who is over 90 - she voted Remain

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 19:56

She was a scientist too - met her in my 2nd job after uni

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 20:30

Having suffered the traffic of Manchester in the last few weeks and previously had to deal with the horror show that is the M6 near Warrington when the viaduct has been closed, I would like to give solidarity to the good people of Kent.

And advise you to prep by purchasing a bicycle.

(Yes I am serious its actually on my list of things to consider)

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bellinisurge · 25/10/2018 20:31

I would get a bike but it's too bloody hilly here. Better to walk!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 25/10/2018 20:31

Oh Red, if you knew the sort of cyclist I am. I’m hoping to survive this crisis you know...

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