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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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Hazardswan · 21/10/2018 19:27

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Muckingston · 21/10/2018 19:31
Star
BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2018 19:31

Peston:Dominic Raab undermines Theresa May on Brexit transition

Raab would be a contender for the leadership too

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-10-21/dominic-raab-undermines-theresa-may-on-brexit-transition/

There is now a clear split between Theresa May and her Brexit secretary Dominic Raab.

She offered a transition extension as a practical measure so that the EU’s version of the Northern Irish backstop would never have to be implemented.

But she knows the EU will not countenance a Brexit deal unless their version of the backstop is written into the Withdrawal Agreement, as an insurance or guarantee that the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland will be kept open whatever else happens.

Raab, in the Telegraph, says an extension of the transition period is dependent on the EU abandoning its backstop - which May knows will not happen.

This policy and ideology difference - between a transition extension as a buffer to ward off implementation of the backstop or as a chip to negotiate away the backstop - is everything.

I can’t see this dispute ending well for Raab or May.
And a no-deal Brexit looks more and more likely

woman11017 · 21/10/2018 19:38

Olenna This article gives details on it:
libcom.org/history/1989-1990-opposition-poll-tax

Mrs8 the poll tax was stopped because thousands of grass roots organisations and individuals organised non payment campaigns.

By August of 1990 one in five had yet to pay, with figures reaching up to 27% of people in London. 20 million people were summoned for non-payment. Many local authorities were faced with a crisis, and councils faced a deficit of £1.7 billion for the next year. Initial successes with non-payment campaigns led to several large demonstrations in cities across the country, including the famous disturbances that occurred in central London on March 31

libcom.org/history/1989-1990-opposition-poll-tax

it was through nationwide organising of resistance and the tactic of non-payment that the state had been forced to back down

Flowers Red

Icantreachthepretzels · 21/10/2018 19:40

www.strayfm.com/news/local-news/2717114/save-brexit-march-goes-ahead-in-harrogate/

Here's a local piece on Farage's event yesterday. What a cheery bunch these winners of the greatest democratic exercise in British history look.
Apparently Betty's Tearoom did not let him in Grin so he went to Wetherspoons instead.

Mrsr8 · 21/10/2018 19:46

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woman11017 · 21/10/2018 19:50

Smile Mrs8
Utterly terrifying.
Interesting in retrospect. Thatcher over stepped the mark, including what happened on that afternoon.. And it ended badly for her.

It was the non payment campaign which did for it though.

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 19:52

Brexiter language has often been disgracefully violent, especially from senior politicans, who should be more responsible

Still, imo she boosted their power by always backing down to them and not condemning their language to others

When you let other groups be demonised, don't be surprised when your turn comes

Well

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
It appears the violent language briefer has engendered an unplanned outbreak of support for Theresa May today - the opposite of his intention.

Nick Boles MP @NickBoles
A very small man, in every respect. Everyone in Parliament knows who it is. So do all the journalists in the lobby. My suggestion: stop reporting his appalling statements

Richard Benyon @RichardBenyonMP
Absolutely right. And get this: the person you refer to speaks only for himself not for the Parliamentary party or the party in the country. Journos should have more self respect than to report the bile he talks

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Mrsr8 · 21/10/2018 19:58

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Efferlunt · 21/10/2018 19:59

I normally lurk but just posting to say thanks for the thread. Shits about to get real!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2018 19:59

woman I remember the poll tax strikes, but imo it wasn't the shortfall in money that caused the Tory panic - it was a v small % of the total govt budget
it was the incredible numbers of people involved - a mass public revolt

The big difference here is that there is nothing to withhold in a mass civil disobedience post-Brexit
So, I expect the govt to end not with a bang, but with a whimper, as voters hit back the only way they can

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2018 20:03

ooh, MrsR8 Do tell 🤭
Philip Davies - a J4MB supporter - is my immediate thought,
but there are quite a few aggressive misogynist shits who would use such language against a vulnerable woman leader.

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 20:04

This is rather cryptic.

PoliticalPics @PoliticalPics 15 mins ago.
Now it looks like Theresa May will be leaving Downing St one imagines the Hammond's will move back in! Perhaps.

What does this mean???

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2018 20:04

ooh, MrsR8 Do tell 🤭
Philip Davies - a J4MB supporter - is my immediate thought,
but there are quite a few aggressive misogynist shits who would use such language against a vulnerable woman leader.

BestIsWest · 21/10/2018 20:06
Star
RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 20:08

David Schneider @davidschneider
This should be fine for the DUP as they’ve spent the last few months saying they will never accept Northern Ireland being treated differently from the rest of the UK.

Ooooo...

Interesting move.

Its been speculated that it was Andrew Bridgen as he used to say similar about Cameron, but Tim Shipman said it wasn't who Boles thought it probably was. Others mentioned Bernard Jenkin as he was a former minister (which the article stated) and Bridgen wasn't a minister.

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
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Mrsr8 · 21/10/2018 20:12

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Hasenstein · 21/10/2018 20:13

Oh, my God, sleepwalking into disaster.

And what the hell is Davis doing, thinking he can threaten the EU with a no-fly zone. Is he really that thick? Or arrogant? What are these people going to do to the wellbeing of our country, just so they can posture and pretend they're the big I AM?

woman11017 · 21/10/2018 20:13

We're looking for a small sexist tory. Tricky case.

Mrsr8 · 21/10/2018 20:14

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RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 20:17

We're looking for a small sexist tory.

Thats a long list to work through.

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Mrsr8 · 21/10/2018 20:21

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Hazardswan · 21/10/2018 20:24

@mybrainhurtsalot your doing all you can by putting the prescription in early. And MPs seem fond of ignoring med questions so don't take it personally. If you have the time try and go and see MP face to face but I have to admit I struggle to do that because I think I would get embarrassingly angry.

If No Deal is officially declared if you can afford to consider getting a one off private prescription to top up your home supplies.

Flowers
woman11017 · 21/10/2018 20:25

Need more on the Potato Face Mrs8 this is a serious investigation. Wink

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 20:27

Small potato faced sexist Tory?

That doesn't even rule the women out!

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