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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

OP posts:
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bellinisurge · 25/10/2018 14:44

Apart from fancying Joe Biden in a fist fight with Trump, who the hell goes after Biden?

ShinyElena · 25/10/2018 14:46

Biden has not ruled himself out of running for President the next time around.

Peregrina · 25/10/2018 14:59

mybrainhurts - that was how our previous Tory MP was. I got so sick of her stock replies that I got active in politics with the intention of doing my utmost to get her voted out. Come the election, she suddenly remembered that she too had voted Remain, in a Remain constituency. A bit too late, 10,000 of her electorate decided that we'd had enough, and dumped her. So keep it up, get active. Your MP might have a much greater majority than 9500 but might not, and if not, it's definitely worth the effort to get them out.

woman11017 · 25/10/2018 15:09

Philip Green named in parliament as businessman who gagged media from publishing sexual harassment allegations - The Independent

PS
We just lost the EMA.

Lot of squirrels about.

mybrainhurtsalot · 25/10/2018 15:10

Her majority was slashed in 2017 - now in the hundreds /around 1%. Dilemma is, last time I was actively helping the Labour campaign locally by leaflet dropping etc, but I feel so betrayed by their response to Brexit I could no longer vote for them, let alone go canvassing. LD so far behind it feels a wasted vote. Have to keep everything crossed that Labour changes position before any referendum/general election.

SwedishEdith · 25/10/2018 15:12

Re the Liverpool tower block and "There isn't even a culture of property ownership in Germany" . Only 3 other EU countries have lower levels of home ownership than the UK - Germany at 52%, Austria at 55% and Denmark at 62% (we're at 63%). High levels of private landlords mean there need to be high levels of protection for tenants. That's where the UK fails tenants.

woman11017 · 25/10/2018 15:16

@BBCPolitics
Boris Johnson and Michael Gove should be jailed for "the £350m lie they put on the red bus" during the #Brexit referendum campaign, says @Lord_Sugar - drawing comparison with company law

twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1055438404404633600

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 15:16

Lord Sugar says Boris Johnson and Michael Gove should be in prison over Brexit 'lies'

Sounds very vengeful against those who never deserved even to reach Apprentice level in politics, but were Masters of Lies

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-lord-sugar-boris-johnson-michael-gove-vote-leave-prison-jail-lies-350-million-a7877601.html

woman11017 · 25/10/2018 15:24

@BarristerSecret
As @PeterHain congratulates himself on using Parliamentary privilege to scupper an interim injunction in ongoing legal proceedings, let’s hope he took a moment to think about the two complainants who did not want the information being made public.

Why did Hain do this I wonder?

DGRossetti · 25/10/2018 15:26

Why did Hain do this I wonder?

It's hard to think of a better way to get parliamentary privilege scrapped, or muzzled really. As far as I know it's only there by convention, not by statute ?

Motheroffourdragons · 25/10/2018 15:27

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 15:33

Original Alvarez (former WTO chief) quote in Nov 2017 about the UK trading on WTO terms after Brexit:

Brexit papers just quoted the first bit

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-wto/wto-chief-says-hes-been-consistent-on-brexit-itll-be-a-bumpy-road-idUSKBN1DR2GH

“So it’s true it’s not going to be the end of the world but it’s not going to be a walk in the park either.
It is going to be a bumpy road.
How bumpy it’s going to be will depend on many things including on the outcome of the negotiations with the EU.”

(btw, when he says in this article that half of the EU's trade is on WTO terms,

  • note the EU has about 750 trade arrangements with those 100 or so non-EEA countries with which it has no FTA, so he may not mean pure WTO terms, without any other arrangement on inspections, standards etc to smooth things. He might be referring to unaltered WTO quotas & tariffs, but not where some NTBs (non-tariff barriers) have been removed)
woman11017 · 25/10/2018 15:37

If the Secret Barrister is correct, the complainants didn't want the information made public. Jess Phillips, has said that it's the prerogative of the complainant to decide what happens. These women must be terrified. Sad

Useful day for this to be on the 6 o clock news though. Wink
What with losing the EMA and Debenhams and the no food or medicine thingy.

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
DGRossetti · 25/10/2018 15:37

Is it not best we know who it was though?

Well, for the sake of all the people who aren't Phillip Green, I guess so. They were placed in an uncomfortable position, of being suspects without being able to clear their names ...

(possibly one for any legal eagles, but would any of those people whose names were bandied about yesterday have committed any offence if they had stated publicly that they were not the person involved ? Thus narrowing down the possibility of determining who was ?)

... there's also the fact that not all of the people that were subject to these NDAs wanted their involvement made public. I hope the law continues to protect them as having done nothing wrong whatsoever.

And it's all very well to laud the rather greasy Lord Hain for being "brave enough" to use a serious privilege to break an injunction. I'd have been more impressed if he put the same effort into tackling the lies and criminal violence and threats of violence surrounding the Brexiteers conduct.

woman11017 · 25/10/2018 15:38

Sorry, that was to mother ^

BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 15:38

Where the complainant also wanted secrecy maintained, e.g. sexual assault victims might, then the public interest often should not override their right to privacy

Tricky when the complainant and defendant have different wishes, then sometimes it is in the public interest and sometimes it is merely something in which the public might have a (prurient or nosy) interest

woman11017 · 25/10/2018 15:39

I'd have been more impressed if he put the same effort into tackling the lies and criminal violence and threats of violence surrounding the Brexiteers conduct
Absolutely.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 15:42

Is it not best we know who it was though?

The courts would have lifted the interim injunction by ruling public interest.

We now have no ruling in law which can be referenced in future because the Lord took it into his own hands at this stage.

It would have been better to wait for it to play out, and if necessary, revealed by parliamentary privilege if the telegraph had been unsuccessfully at the main ruling stage, which was to establish the concept of public interest.

So whilst it might look like the Lord has acted in a way which is in the public interest, in practice he might hVd done to the contrary.

It depends on what action is taken by parliament now, over the regulation of NDAs.

But you might want to bare in mind how many NDAs the government, Parliament and tory Party members and donors are currently hiding behind when you do that.

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 15:44

I saw this morning that Green had announced it wasn't him though !
We can't necessarily believe anyone claiming it wasn't him in such cases (or that it was) without evidence

Better not to have gag orders, but to let the press / media publish
if they publish false allegations, then people who can afford 500k legal fees for a gag, can afford the same to sue for libel

Motheroffourdragons · 25/10/2018 15:46

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 15:48

I am beyond pissed that the taxpayer is forking out millions for NDAs to staff to keep quiet about MPs harassment.

It has to be in the public interest to let such claims / allegations go through the normal employment tribunal process
Whether valid or not, why must such claims, e.g. those against Raab, be covered up in such deathly secrecy ? 🤔
At our own expense

Motheroffourdragons · 25/10/2018 15:49

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/10/2018 15:50

We never compel victims of sexual assault to bring charges though, mother
Individual rights of the vulnerable cannot be sacrificed for the "greater good"

Motheroffourdragons · 25/10/2018 15:52

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ShinyElena · 25/10/2018 15:52

Why did Green bother with a super injunction though? It does not make sense. He is already a social pariah. I am pretty sure even Kate Moss did not attend his latest birthday party. He could have kept that money safely in Monaco, or even better given it to BHS pensioners.

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