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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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Thread gallery
43
RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 14:50

The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: Secret Service: Package identified as `potential explosive device' sent to former President Barack Obama in Washington.

Great

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woman11017 · 24/10/2018 14:51

NYT wants to hear from you.
How does brexit make you feel Grin
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/opinion/23brexitcallout.html?mtrref=t.co&g

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 14:55

National Audit Office Report 19.10.2018 - The UK border: preparedness for EU exit

Genuinely scary, see photo summary, but worth reading.

These are experts - it is the job of this office to explain to Parliament what the govt & the civil service are doing
In this case, failing dreadfully almost everywhere wrt Brexit prep

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/The-UK-border-preparedness-for-EU-exit.pdf

13 There is a high delivery risk attached to government departments’ border programmes for ‘day one of no deal’ due to their scale, complexity and urgency;

this risk is magnified by the degree of interdependence between the programmes
....
21 If there is no withdrawal agreement, the government has recognised that the border will be ‘less than optimal’.
We agree with this assessment, and it may take some time for a fully functioning border to be put in place.
Individuals and businesses will feel the impact of a sub-optimal border to varying degrees.

The government is putting in place coping responses where it can.

How effective they will be remains to be seen.
😂 🤦🏻‍♀️ < civil service weeps / howls / covers arse >

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 14:57

Red wtf - warnings or amateurish (because easily found) threats to leading Dems

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 15:00

As I said the other day, the mid terms are a focul point. There is potential for it all to kick off.

This isn't making me reassess that opinion.

This fits in with voter intimidation too.

I would like to say this is isolated and the end of it, but I suspect we'll see more and copycats over the next week or so.

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DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 15:02

I wonder how many bad actors there are around the world, preparing for a just in case once-in-a-lifetime (and that last may not be quite as long as some would expect Sad) chance to get into the UK with absolutely no chance of being traced back ?

I know I would.

Of course, if there is a suspicion that in the chaos of a no-border free-for-all, some undesirables did slip in, would that make anyone subsequently leaving the UK more of a suspect abroad ?

I thought people were supposed to be paid to think of these things. Why the fuck am I doing it for free ? I can't do this and police twitter to ensure there's no superinjunction trolling going on.

woman11017 · 24/10/2018 15:03

Mob rule, weaponised by trump.
Same here.
This nice music journalist was beaten by fascist thugs here.

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 15:08

Daily Telegraph blocked from naming businessman who 'sexually harassed staff'

They did have a good investigative team, e.g. MPs expenses. Maybe still allowed to work

https://news.sky.com/story/leading-uk-businessman-sexually-harassed-and-racially-abused-staff-11534172

The Court of Appeal has stopped a newspaper from naming a "leading businessman" who is alleged to have sexually harassed and racially abused members of staff.

The Daily Telegraph said the senior executive in a company group had hired at least seven lawyers and spent close to £500,000 in legal fees in his quest to get an injunction against the paper.
....
The newspaper, which has spent eight months investigating "allegations of bullying and intimidation", said the court had ruled that the "confidentiality of contracts was more important than freedom of speech".

There was clear public interest in publishing the allegations, the paper said, because it would alert anyone thinking of applying to work for the man.

Under the ruling, it is illegal to reveal the businessman's identity or to identify the companies, as well as what he is accused of doing or how much he paid his alleged victims.
...
"like (Harvey) Weinstein, the British businessman used controversial non-disclosure agreements (NDAs), to silence and pay off his alleged victims with 'substantial sums'".

Hazardswan · 24/10/2018 15:10

How incompetent can this government get? How can you act tough when you don't have the infrastructure at the borders?! Its like a drunk angry man who cant stand up straight insisting he could take on anyone, any time or anywhere because he's well hard and extra special strong.

I read something in the evening standard, won't bother linking it as it was nothing new but it was saying TM is going to carry on with the chequers deal.... it's dead the chequers deal is dead, she is not just flogging a dead horse she is flogging the skeleton of the horse.

What's the matter with people?

It's so ridiculous my mind does not fully believe its true.

Thanks for the time red... I'll bake comfort food for the ready.

Plus side if she's out then I've won my bet...

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 15:10

I thought people were supposed to be paid to think of these things. Why the fuck am I doing it for free ? I can't do this and police twitter to ensure there's no superinjunction trolling going on.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. There is no thinking in politics at the moment. The civil service can only do so much in that environment.

When these threads started over 2 years ago it struck me how much of what was blindingly obvious to me (and to other Westministenders) was just way above whats been going on in politics.

This country has always prided itself on critical thought, innovation and free thinking - and thats what gave us a competitive edge over places like China.

It feels like we forgot the Holocaust; and why and how we built the post war world. People who don't like rights and people who don't understand how rights work are as bad as each other.

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BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 15:11

woman 7 Brexiter thugs vs 1 elderly man

I'm glad I can wear my EU T shirt, jacket & cap in the Rhine valley without fear
A few compliments and a couple of women at the gym have copied me and bought flags for their bikes

prettybird · 24/10/2018 15:14

From the BBC report on the NAO damning assessment www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45952284 (which, BTW, was very difficult to find: hidden away in the "extra" topics on the UK Politics page and not even on the UK news page Hmm) about the lack of preparedness for a No Deal (or even a "deal" Hmm)

The government said it had made significant progress planning for a "no deal".

"Extensive work to prepare for a no deal has been well underway for almost two years and we have robust plans in place to ensure the border continues to operate from the day we leave," a spokesman said.

"Future IT systems and infrastructure are already being built and, as they do today, HMRC will continue to apply an automated, risk-based approach to customs checks.

....so in summary, "we're going to stick our fingers in our ears and continue to sing 'La, la, la, la'" Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 15:15

John Grace: Matt the blank makes few friends with genius take on NHS and Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/23/matt-the-blank-made-few-friends-when-grilled-over-the-nhs-and-brexit
The HoC original, nearly as funny if you like Yes Minister
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/573363f2-7603-4d65-84e7-748b1801c120

Matt Hancock .... A hyperactive man-boy whose enthusiasm and bumptiousness
– combined with a gift for telling people what he thinks they want to hear –
far exceed his natural talents. < sums it up >
...
Committee chair Sarah Wollaston gently picked him up on some of their more pressing concerns.
The country was desperately short of refrigerated storage facilities and it would take at least a year to build the required amount.

Which would be at least six months too late.

“Um … er … um,” Hancock mumbled, 🤦🏻‍♀️
trying to locate his inner uselessness

We were only 10 minutes in and he was already sounding as incoherent as the prime minister on one of her average days

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 15:15

The newspaper, which has spent eight months investigating "allegations of bullying and intimidation", said the court had ruled that the "confidentiality of contracts was more important than freedom of speech".

I'm beginning to see why the colonials rebelled.

Imaging trying to get away with that in the US ?

Hazardswan · 24/10/2018 15:15

woman not surprised in the slightest. I wouldnt wear anything like that round my way.

frankiestein401 · 24/10/2018 15:23

I thought people were supposed to be paid to think of these things.

well.. a disproportionate number of the civil service working on brexit are young/relatively new so to expected really?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 15:30

Brexit deal is '0% agreed' until Irish border issue solved, Verhofstadt tells May

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brexit-deal-0-agreed-irish-border-issue-solved-verhofstadt-tells-may-084805452.html

Speaking to MEPs in Strasbourg, Verhofstadt said:
“Mrs May says 95% has been agreed.
Michel Barnier says 90% has been agreed.

I know that Britain has always had difficulties with the Metric system 😂😂
....
“But I have to tell you one thing: if it is 90 or 95 or 99,
if there is no solution for the Irish border then for our parliament it is 0% that is agreed for the moment.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 15:39

I know that Britain has always had difficulties with the Metric system

A tad unfair. I'm fully conversant as should anyone younger than me be (I started school the year it was compulsory, so have only known it at school).

And much as I despise my MiL and her asshat partner - they were quite familiar with it too.

Probably an age thing (as in now I've got to this age ...) to be dogmatic, but if you're not familiar with metric by now, maybe, just maybe, you should have paid a tiny bit more attention in the past 100 years.

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 15:40

Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto
Breaking: CNN NY office evacuated. Police bomb squad is here. We’re told of explosive device received. @CNNnewsroom

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 15:42

Jim Acosta @Acosta
From our @SchneiderCNN and @ShimonPro - Device sent to Time Warner Center was constructed with a pipe and wires, according to NYPD source. Law enforcement authorities at the moment are treating the device as a real explosive.

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 15:45

twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/1055107309142269952
CNN hosts as they tell live on air that there is a fire alarm. Check out everyone in the back ground.

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DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 15:47

Brexit comes in all shapes and sizes

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 15:50

DG As he will mostly have contact with Farage & other UKIP MEPs, then DD, May ...
he may be under-estimating the metric capability of the average Brit

However, reportedly 20% of the population is functionally illiterate and innumerate (which would explain a lot)

prettybird · 24/10/2018 15:51

DGR - you're right. I'm 57, so there are waaaaay more people in the UK younger than me than older than me Blush

I can remember decimilisation. I can remember a wee bit of teaching imperial measures at primary school, but the vast majority of my schooling was in metric. I've been dealing with metric money and metric measurements for the majority of my life. There is no excuse for anyone younger than me not to be comfortable with the metric system. Confused

PineappleSunrise · 24/10/2018 15:53

The bomb threats are so overt it's actually incredible. Then I remember (because Trump can do no wrong) that it will be assumed it's a false flag operation, a la the violent language towards the PM.

(I don't think I can face palm any more. Actually getting slightly bruised by all the face palming I've been doing lately.)

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