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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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Peregrina · 24/10/2018 15:53

Come on now - May can't be killed because as a zombie PM she is already dead. She will go on forever......

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 15:53

Speaking of the metric system Grin, looks like there will be fewer places you can get a "Gourmet Burger" from now ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45962981

Gourmet Burger Kitchen (GBK) says it has earmarked 17 restaurants for closure after running up millions of pounds of losses.

(contd)

Where's my Kahuna Burger ?

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 15:55

However, reportedly 20% of the population is functionally illiterate and innumerate

In which case, they can't count in any system.

When I was younger, I would have been shocked. Now I'm older, I'm grateful there are 20% of my fellow Britons who are dedicated to keeping prices low for me.

Hazardswan · 24/10/2018 15:56

Re American bombs red didn't you predict this? Either a) your a fecking genius or b) whatever you say becomes reality so start saying nice things please?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2018 15:56

Russia blocks UK's post-Brexit tariff proposal at WTO

19 countries including the US, some Anglosphere & South American countries have informally objected, but this official objection from Russia blocks it legally.

This will take time & haggling over UK tarriffs & quotas
Very opportunistic, but should have been expected

https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/russia-blocks-uks-post-brexit-tariff-proposal-at-wto

An objection from a single trading partner means that the WTO can’t certify the proposal until the problem is resolved.

It might also force the UK to undergo the full procedure for changing its rates, rather than the simplified “rectification” procedure it has so far pursued.

Hazardswan · 24/10/2018 15:59

It's almost as Russia likes to interfer in the UK's business... ... how unusual for Russia.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 16:00

I guess the easiest way to hide bad Brexit news, is to publish it in a foreign language ?

www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/concern-1800-astrazeneca-workers-after-15316740

Fears for the future of nearly 2,000 workers at Macclesfield’s AstraZeneca site have been raised after ‘bolt from the blue’ comments from the company’s chairman.

Lief Johansson, the non-executive chairman, was widely reported as saying the pharmaceutical giant will not invest in its British operations while Brexit uncertainty continues.

His interview with France’s Le Monde newspaper has sparked concern for the 1,800 staff at the manufacturing and distribution site at Charter Way.

1tisILeClerc · 24/10/2018 16:05

{However, reportedly 20% of the population is functionally illiterate and innumerate}
In 'Brexit speak' surely that's a clear majority!

SergeantPfeffer · 24/10/2018 16:13

If there’s one thing I learned from watching 8 series of forensics files, it’s that Americans love a pipe bomb. Seriously! They had loads of cases in the 90s. I mean why bother with divorce when you can use a pipe bomb Confused

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 16:14

Given the missing-without-trace Brexit news on the BBC, things must be going really shit.

Still, non-news about goat hunting makes the cut ....

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 16:26

If there’s one thing I learned from watching 8 series of forensics files, it’s that Americans love a pipe bomb. Seriously! They had loads of cases in the 90s.

In the family tree of small arms explosives, pipe bombs are pretty much page 1 stuff (it was the bomb of chose for SOE, as the BBC docuseries showed).

The starting point for IEDs, is that the people building them are probably not OxBridge material, so simplicity, reliability, and integrity are probably key. Pipe bombs fit all those criteria (by integrity, I mean the chances of you making yourself into a soufflé are minimal). They also allow a good ratio of bang to bits, and can be transported relatively anonymously.

I mean why bother with divorce when you can use a pipe bomb

There was a dreadful case many years ago where a farmer tried to kill his wife (she survived - only just Sad) using that same logic. He also killed his neighbour, and tried to make it look like self defence. UK CSI fans will be pleased to know it was the blood splatter which gave him away.

The biggest problem with bombs is always getting enough explosive, (or making it yourself). You really want semtexy stuff for best results.

Gunpowder can work, but technically it's a low explosive. That said, luckily, we're just about to pump a few hundred tonnes (or tons, for Brexiters) onto the streets of the UK.

There are far more efficient ways to cause an outrage - with much less chance of detection or prevention. The fact I'm still waiting for news of them suggests that the terrorists really are that thick, if the police have stopped over 12 plots last year. Assuming their definition of "terrorist" and "plot" is the same as mine, that is.

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 16:29

Matthew Holehouse @mattholehouse
NEW: Russia has launched an formal objection to the UK's bid to fix its tariff schedules at the WTO - presenting a much longer and harder path for Liam Fox's team. Top Brexit scoop by @zosiawanat and @JoannaSopinska.

In May 2017 Russian ambassador Vladimir Chizhov told MLex the UK's bid to replicate its EU agreements will need Russia's help and take "a hell of a time and a hell of an effort". In the same interview he said he hoped Brexit might bring about the end of sanctions on Russia.

Other states such as the US have informally protested -- but Russia is the first country we know about to have launched formal action, escalating the dispute.

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DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 16:29

Returning to goat hunting ...I wonder what preppers make of this ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45967845

A Scottish government minister has called for an end to the hunting of wild goats on Islay.

Mike Russell was responding to social media posts showing American TV presenter Larysa Switlyk posing beside dead goats on the island.

Ms Switlyk, who describes herself as a "hardcore huntress", hosts the Larysa Unleashed programme.

(contd).

by the way, I googled "hardcore huntress" so you didn't have to Grin.

(incidentally, should it not just be "hunter" ? Same as "actor" and "comedian" nowadays ?)

bellinisurge · 24/10/2018 16:34

Also in 50s also taught both metric and imperial at school. Also remember decimalisation.
Like most people, I do imperial for some things (car speed, my weight and height) and metric for others.
As long as you don't mix them up when talking about the same thing it's not hard.

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 16:35

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/10/24/it-s-official-we-ve-run-out-of-time-to-prepare-for-no-deal
It's official: We've run out of time to prepare for no-deal

By Ian Dunt.

The man who wrote a book saying all of this stuff about No Deal that was published in November 2016.

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bellinisurge · 24/10/2018 16:35

As a prepper, I don't hunt so you'd need to ask someone who hunts.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 16:39

Also in 50s also taught both metric and imperial at school.

From the day I started, everything was in metric. No alternatives, or backstops. All working had to be in metric, and everything was taught in metric. If we learned imperial, it was at home. (My DF insisted we learn, as he had to. Share the pain, I guess).

It wasn't really a big thing, as all the equipment was dual-scale anyway (unlike a lot of US kit - even NASAs stuff - which is imperial only).

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 16:40

I only ever really did metric. We touched on imperial but thats it.

I do height of people by ft and inches as thats the convention. But I actually measure stuff in metric. Same for the weight of people.

I do mph for speed. But then all our signage is in miles and mph. Its easy enough to switch to km and kmph when we go to Europe.

What do I need imperial for on a practical level other than that?

Metric is just easier!

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bellinisurge · 24/10/2018 16:41

I'm just pleased I was too young to learn pounds shillings and pence or Galleons sickles and knuts. Cool coins though, I collected them. Maybe we'll go back to that.

DGRossetti · 24/10/2018 16:45

What do I need imperial for on a practical level other than that?

Pints Grin ?

Stone are brilliant, because USians don't know what they are either. The idea of a headbanging Brexiteer finding a sympathetic American to chat to about a shared culture, only to discover that not only do they not know what stones are, but also their pint (and therefore gallon) are different too Smile.

Although, as P.J. O Rourke noted, say what you like about drugs - they've taught the youth of America the metric system ....

missclimpson · 24/10/2018 16:45

I used to cry over multiplication of yards, feet and inches.
I use metric for most things but can never remember my height. When I was in hospital recently I tried telling the nurses I was 5 pieds et 4 pouces (they would have understood before the Revolution).

Mrsr8 · 24/10/2018 16:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 16:53

Pints? Yes fair enough.

2/3rds is creeping in. Its great. Perfect size. Not to big, not to small.

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RedToothBrush · 24/10/2018 16:54

Nadine is throwing a tantrum.

Nadine Dorries @NadineDorries
PM attending ‘22 meeting Already rigged by the whips Loyalist Chequers supporters will be dispersed about the room to desk bang and cheer. The whips will communicate via WhatsApp. The first questioner will already have been agreed and the questions planted It’s a PR farce

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Mrsr8 · 24/10/2018 16:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.