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Brexit

Westministenders: A Change of Mood

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2018 17:57

A day after 700,000 people came from all over the country to march on the streets of the Capital to protest and say there needs to be another vote on what next.

Has it changed anything?

Well the mood is changing.

Former leavers are starting to have doubts. Not necessarily about leaving but certainly about how its been handled. Some have ridicilous ideas on how it should be done which are not grounded in any sort of reality. But others are starting to realise that a lot of what Remainers said, at least has some truth, in terms of the complexity and practical problems of leaving.

The EU who previoiusly have been exasperated but accomodating are starting to baton down the hatches and move to a no deal position. The EU summit in November will now no longer include the UK because progress has not been made, although we have been told this is changeable if we have a change of heart. At the summit they will talk about No Deal planning. There has been talk that the final deadline for the UK is 13th December, but there are also some saying this is optimistic and in reality its the middle of November in political terms because this is when EU countries will start committing large amounts of money to No Deal. At this point, it becomes much more difficult for leaders to justify to their own population 'wasting' money on no deal measures.

Back in the UK, the penny is starting to drop. Peston has talked about just how far away we really are from a deal. He's the first main stream journalist to say it outloud. Everyone else is still maintaining we will get a deal, when May just does not have the power in her own party to manage it. She is now reaching out to Labour to help her get a deal as its her only option left open to her now.

May has to get the budget through parliament before the EU summit - on the 1st November - and the DUP are already threatening to vote against it as leverage to get their own way on Brexit.

Tory MP Johnny Mercer is so fed up of it all, that he's come out saying that that he wouldn't vote Tory now, and its all a "complete shit show".

This apparently hasn't gone down too well with other Tories as they feel it means that its more likely to provoke a leadership challenge sooner rather than later. It has been reported that May has been effectively been put on notice and she 72 hours to sort it out. She has been called to a 1922 Committee Meeting on Wednesday to answer to backbenchers.

Up until now, its been thought that the 48 letters wouldn't be sent to Graham Brady because she would win a no confidence vote. Its now being reported that there is a creeping fear that the party would end up with a situation like Labour where they were unable to get rid of Corbyn, and if a leadership challenge was launched they would need to just get rid of her now.

Quick revision:

  1. To trigger a confidence vote 48 letters (15% of Tory MPs) need to be sent to Graham Brady, the chair of the 1922 Committee.
  2. There is then a vote, and the leader needs 156 MPs (50.1%) of the vote to win or they face a leadership election.
  3. If there is no confidence vote, another one can't be called for twelve months.

There has been talk of David Davis as an interim leader, which isn't true; its just the start of another round of positioning as Tories smell the blood of a wounded leader. Johnson is also circling and isn't impressed at David Davis seemingly throwing his hat in the ring, despite previously he would just retire.

Triggering a no confidence vote, just before the EU summit around the time of the budget could be just about the worst timing possible if thats the case...

... it would leave British politics in complete chaos and the EU will have effectively run out of time and will have to commit themselves to No Deal anyway.

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BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 07:54

The Leave victory in the referendum has been taken by some people as unlimited licence to spout racism, disabilism and misogyny

The previous social constraints were limited, but are now ignored by those who feel the referendum was a victory against "political correctness", i.e. decency to other people

DGRossetti · 23/10/2018 08:30

The Leave victory in the referendum has been taken by some people as unlimited licence to spout racism, disabilism and misogyny

Not just to spout it, but also to tacitly endorse it. The recent thread on the Ryanair incident shows a few people trying to excuse the mans behaviour, rather than call it out. Exactly the same way Trump allows disgusting Americans to feel vindicated.

Anyone recall "The Godfather" ? When they're hunkering down for a war, and Clemenza wearily tells Sonny that it's necessary to have a war to remove some bad blood. It's becoming increasingly hard not to understand where that sentiment comes from Sad.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 09:10

No doubt an insincere "apology will be forthcoming later....

He has now said he meant the step dad who posted it, not the step son in the picture saying he hates children being used for the adults political point.

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KennDodd · 23/10/2018 09:30

The Leave victory in the referendum has been taken by some people as unlimited licence to spout racism, disabilism and misogyny

Thing is, they're right. It's a great time to be a racist in the UK (not just the UK). The wind is in their sails and things are going their way, their in charge. I always say when leavers bleat on about leave not being racist to take themselves over to Leave EU facebook pages and have a look.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 09:36

Nick Robinson @ bbcnickrobinson
"Sometimes I think Mrs May could be ousted tomorrow. Other times I think my great-great-grandchildren will awake to the news that Mrs May has just negotiated a 95th extra year for the transition period" @MichaelPDeacon speaks for all hacks

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RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 09:37

Press Association @ pa
#Breaking Dyson has opted to manufacture its new electric cars at a new plant in Singapore

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DGRossetti · 23/10/2018 09:38

#Breaking Dyson has opted to manufacture its new electric cars at a new plant in Singapore

It's all the remainers fault, I tell you ! It is !

Violetparis · 23/10/2018 09:40

I don't like the photo of an ill child draped in an EU flag being used for the Remain cause either. Wouldn't call the parent a cretin but it does make me uncomfortable.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 09:40

Poll on twitter currently

Ladbrokes Politics @ labpolitics
Will Theresa May face a no-confidence vote before the end of the year?

Yes 52%
No 48%

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TheElementsSong · 23/10/2018 09:41

#Breaking Dyson has opted to manufacture its new electric cars at a new plant in Singapore

Remoaning Traitor!

Oh.

Quietrebel · 23/10/2018 09:42

The Leave victory in the referendum has been taken by some people as unlimited licence to spout racism, disabilism and misogyny

Better known as fascists.

borntobequiet · 23/10/2018 09:42

Somewhat ironic those numbers.
Ladbroke’s gave me 12/1 on my little wager.

Quietrebel · 23/10/2018 09:42

These 'people' will never represent me

DGRossetti · 23/10/2018 09:46

The Leave victory in the referendum has been taken by some people as unlimited licence to spout racism, disabilism and misogyny

Better known as fascists.

Er ... all of those qualities can be found - in spades - on the left side of politics as well. People aren't racist, disabilist or misogynistic because of their politics. They are racist, disabilist or misogynistic because they are ignorant, lacking empathy, and generally poor specimens of humanity. That's why UKIP attracted voters from Conservative and Labour. People with pretty disgusting views saw others with equally disgusting views and thought "let's get together".

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 09:48

Ladbrokes Politics @labpolitics
Roll up, roll up - now only 2/1 Theresa May replaced as PM this year.
From yesterday evening

Ladbrokes Politics @labpolitics
Will there be a Theresa May no-confidence vote this year?
60% of bets today were for YES.
From yesterday

And another poll currently

Ladbrokes Politics @labpolitics
IF May faces a No Confidence vote this year what would the result be?

She wins 54%
She loses 46%

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DGRossetti · 23/10/2018 09:55

IF May faces a No Confidence vote this year what would the result be?

Are we talking Theresa May as Conservative leader, or the government in a vote of No Confidence ? The two aren't necessarily dependant (which will cheer Theresa up ....)

Quietrebel · 23/10/2018 09:55

DGR
Agree. I didnt mean it as a left v right comment. It's about a certain vision of humanity, the fascination for authoritarianism and contempt for anything perceived as other or weaker. That's found on both sides of the spectrum. The EU has come to focus these people's hostility towards humanist liberal values.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 09:59

Err who are they referring to???

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
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missmoon · 23/10/2018 09:59

I don't like the photo of an ill child draped in an EU flag being used for the Remain cause either. Wouldn't call the parent a cretin but it does make me uncomfortable.

This denies the child any agency, what if he wanted to do it? I teach 17-20 year olds, and I think people underestimate the strength of feeling there is among them that they are having their future taken away from them. They are incredibly angry.

Mistigri · 23/10/2018 10:06

My children are as passionately pro EU as I am, if not more so.

Peregrina · 23/10/2018 10:06

The Daily Mail has a new editor, don't forget. One who is a known Remainer. I don't doubt that he has to tread carefully, so as not to wake his readership up to his change of emphasis.

DGRossetti · 23/10/2018 10:12

The Daily Mail has a new editor, don't forget. One who is a known Remainer. I don't doubt that he has to tread carefully, so as not to wake his readership up to his change of emphasis.

But do moronic Brexiteers buy the Daily Mail because they are moronic Brexiteers ? Or are they moronic Brexiteers because they buy the Daily Mail ?

My late DM was quite a Daily Mail reader, whilst despising it's politics. The Sun, Express and Mirror are simply nowhere near the same level, and she didn't like broadsheets. She switched to "Today" when it came out. Sunday it was Mail on Sunday, Sunday Times and Observer.

RedToothBrush · 23/10/2018 10:15

Ladbrokes Politics @labpolitics
This isn't really helping

Westministenders: A Change of Mood
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BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 10:15

Those who spout racism, disabilism and misogyny - and anti-semitism, homophobia too -
are usually authoritarians, who may be on the hard right or the hard left

However, currently it is the right in the UK who are dominant in the hate
Rightwing authoritarians are much more likely to support policies like the death penalty, corporal punishment in schools etc

What is worrying is how many Tory politicians formerly considered "moderate" or "repectable" are pandering to them and indulging in cynical dog-whistle politics for votes.

Even more worrying is when that actually does gain votes, or at least is ignored by the voters

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2018 10:16

Kids, even early teens, are some of the most passionate EU supporters
Those on marches weren't dragged there - it would be impractical