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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

OP posts:
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woman11017 · 03/10/2018 12:12

@J_amesp
May talks of unity and an end to abusive political discourse.

Translation: she’s going to bring in controls on internet use and measures on protest and campaigning.

ShinyElena · 03/10/2018 12:13

Is she really calling for decency in the Tory party?

woman11017 · 03/10/2018 12:13

Elements I could only manage 110 seconds. I'm just reading commentariat. While I can.Sad

TheElementsSong · 03/10/2018 12:15

I could only manage 110 seconds.

That was probably enough for your brains to melt and dribble out of your ears, right?

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:17

I'm not sure our TV is going to survive this Angry

She's now on about sovereignty and the ability to make our own decisions and how someone's father can arrive on a plane from Pakistan and go to become Hone Secretary.

Deliberately ignoring Oblivious to the facts that she has already said that the UK had never lost its sovereignty (it just felt like it had) and that under the proposed immigration rules that said Home Secretary has just announced his father would not have been able to come to the UK Confused

woman11017 · 03/10/2018 12:20

Grin elements Smile

DGRossetti · 03/10/2018 12:20

She's now on about sovereignty and the ability to make our own decisions and how someone's father can arrive on a plane from Pakistan and go to become Hone Secretary.

The fact that's happened while we were in the EU ....

DGRossetti · 03/10/2018 12:21

She's now on about sovereignty and the ability to make our own decisions and how someone's father can arrive on a plane from Pakistan and go to become Hone Secretary.

Also - and lets be honest - if that had been the strapline for the Leave Campaign, the result would have been 80/20 remain.

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:22

23 minutes and she still hasn't mentioned Brexit or the EU directly.

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:22

...at which point she does Grin

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:25

She's saying MPs asked the British people to make this decision. In which case why was it just an advisory referendum?

And she is repeating her "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal". Tough at first but the resilience and ingenuity of the British people would see us through.

Hmm
DGRossetti · 03/10/2018 12:26

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-03/japan-waves-goodbye-to-u-k-as-gateway-to-europe-post-brexit

Japan Waves Goodbye to U.K. as ‘Gateway to Europe’ Post-Brexit

(contd)

DGRossetti · 03/10/2018 12:27

Hopefully the ingenuity of the British people will be hard at work on how to reverse this catastrophe and dump the Tories.

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:30

Demanding that the EU treat her with respect when she has shown them the utmost of respect. Confused

That her policy with allow JIT manufacture to continue.

That Free Movement will end so that for the first time in decades the UK will have control over who comes into the country and that this is in the national interest as companies will then be able (Confused) to invest in training their own people.

frankiestein401 · 03/10/2018 12:31

the wartime analogies dont work because there is no enemy (other than disaster capitalism)
in considering strength of character the question is whether we've got enough to admit (as a nation) that we got it wrong.

i'm not a history buff but appreciate history is the best predictor - what happened after suez? what was done to restore the national ego? was it just time or did we blame the USA?

1tisILeClerc · 03/10/2018 12:31

Fear not dear readers!
Someones's found the plans for the British Leyland manufactured Morris Marina behind a filing cabinet, the UK car industry is saved, we will rule the world again.

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:37

So the Festival of GB and NI wasn't a spoof. She's just announced it as a year long "thing" Hmm

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:39

Arguably, as it is planned for 2022, it has the potential to breach purdah, as its motivation and raison d'être is political.

jasjas1973 · 03/10/2018 12:41

Back (wards)

Peregrina · 03/10/2018 12:41

Does the Festival of Brexit have to be voted on in Parliament? If so, there might be a queue of MPs who tell May it's a waste of money. However, I doubt whether it will be able to go ahead because it will require EU construction and hospitality workers, and they are not going to be admitted, and won't want to come here.

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:43

Now claiming that those that fought in wars and struggled for freedom (eg Iron Curtain) chose freedom - and thanks those that struggled.

So that's why the Referendum in 1975, in which the majority of those voting had experienced either the War(s) or their aftermath, was 67% in favour of remaining in the European Community? Confused

TheElementsSong · 03/10/2018 12:44

She's just announced it as a year long "thing

That £350 million a week is getting spread thinner and thinner. Thank goodness we'll also be enjoying the Brexit bonus Grin

But, surely we should be waiting until 2069 to see the full benefits of Brexit?

prettybird · 03/10/2018 12:49

I really should be doing the accounts for the voluntary organisation I am on. Its AGM is on Monday and I am stepping down as Treasurer (actually I have to as the reason I am on it is no longer applicable). They're simple but will still take a few hours. And I'm off to the ELO concert tonight. At least I have something to look forward to Smile

SusanWalker · 03/10/2018 12:56

Waffling on about Labour driving business out of the UK, whilst ignoring the fact that brexit does the same.

HurricaneFloss · 03/10/2018 13:02

I hate to say it but TM did well.
It's going to look good when cut up and shown on the 6 o'clock news.