Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
70
Mightybanhammer · 02/10/2018 21:38

Thanks so much for the wooferendum and cats against Brexit links.
Made me smile!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2018 21:39

Oh well, we can soothe ourselves with pretty cats from pretty and plums
before returning to the grind

Peregrina · 02/10/2018 21:42

My cat died at the beginning of the year and at the moment, I haven't got another.

Peregrina · 02/10/2018 21:45

In other words, an EU agency is sort-of treating the UK like a non-member already.

Well come on. We said we wanted out, and the sooner the better. They have just taken us at our word! Except it turns out that we want to cherry pick the bits which suit us. We've got away with this for 45 years.. so why can't we continue?Grin

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 21:52

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7401426/ban-on-throw-away-nappies-could-be-next-in-war-on-plastic-michael-gove-hints/
Crackdown on throw-away nappies could be next in war on plastic, Michael Gove hints

The Environment Secretary even hinted the Chancellor may be considering a tax in the upcoming Budget to encourage sustainable alternatives

Oh look, a tax especially for women.

OP posts:
prettybird · 02/10/2018 21:53

The two boys (on the left) were a replacement to our favourite cos he was a big tart last boy who was knocked down and killed by a boy racer 2 years ago Sad (he was only 9 Sad) to keep the old girl company. She's nearly 15, so to have just got a single kitten would have been wrong, but it took 8 months until we felt we were ready.

lonelyplanetmum · 02/10/2018 22:03

Ok - so here's a close up of one of my boys. This one's got a tinge of Russian so I hope he's not pro you know what.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
SwedishEdith · 02/10/2018 22:04

Tbf, I saw a full nappy discarded on a city centre pavement today. I'd like that taxed.

How are they going to square getting all fake angry about the tampon tax but tax nappies?

Moussemoose · 02/10/2018 22:11

prettybird your cats look like they are furoign.........

What will happen to them after Brexit?

Somerville · 02/10/2018 22:16

DUP are taking the chance to give the GFA another kicking. It’s as simple as that. The birth rate was already not in their favour, and now their actions in Stormont and over Brexit has encouraged burgeoning Irish identity amongst young people from unionist backgrounds. They’d lose the Independence referendum the GFA ensures, in the next decade or two, and they know it.

BTW, 10degreestostarboard my degree was very close to ancient Norse lesbian myths and my Masters even closer. I’ve done fine in life and career, cheers. Give yourself a pat on the back for whatever you studied that was so much worthier and more important, but don’t think that it means other people’s life chances were stunted for only reading Classics or humanities.
Coming from the kind of poverty and discrimination that encouraged narrow mindsets and sectarian violence, my parents’ generation of Irish Catholics hammered home the importance of education and learning for its own sake as a route away from bigotry and towards freedom. The older I get the more convinced I am that they are right.

Icantreachthepretzels · 02/10/2018 22:30

Crackdown on throw-away nappies could be next in war on plastic, Michael Gove hints
Oh look, a tax especially for women.

Don't forget the pervs. Just ask the green party (or should that be the lib dems now?) - a lot of pervs use disposable nappies Wink

woman11017 · 02/10/2018 22:36

Somerville spot on post.Smile PS, in writers' museum in Dublin, I discovered a famous writer with your MN name Smile
Love the cats folks, Flowers Peregrina sorry to hear about yours.
prettybird beautiful picture susan love those adopted cat stories in station etc. Cats don't 'belong' to people anyway, that's their charm I always think. Smile Mine's on the prowl outside. Think I have a badger too

prettybird · 02/10/2018 22:38

Moussemoose - indeed, they are pesky elite cats Wink. But we're in Scotland, so when we get our independence following the Brexit clusterfuck , they'll be welcome as Scots as they have been resident in and contributing to the quality of life in Scotland Grin

Mightybanhammer · 02/10/2018 22:45

Yes Somerville but your thought provoking posts here and elsewhere mark you out as exceptionally bright and the sort of person who could have succeeded whether you studied lesbian Norse myths at the polytechnic of Carlton Bassett or Ppe at Oxford.

The outrage of the current system saddles non academic children with a life time of debt in return for a 'career' in retail with a degree in lesbian Norse myths from the university of Colton Bassett.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 02/10/2018 22:46

I am very concerned about the status of one of my cats as he is an economic migrant cat
(He used to live next door but adopted us and then our neighbour moved and said we may as well keep him).
I am going to start a petition and send it to Sajid Javid. My cat contributes indirectly to the economy as he gets through a fuck load of Dreamies. #Crispy must stay

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Somerville · 02/10/2018 22:48

Edith Somerville, woman? People tend to assume my username is for her or the college, but it’s actually due to the sublime Philippa Somerville of the Lymond Chronicles.

A friend recently wanted me to help her talk her DD whose A levels hadn’t gone as hoped out of going to university. I said bloody hell no way - women have been able to graduate for less than 100 years, I’m not talking a single one of us out of the opportunity.
The more educated women around the better, IMO.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 02/10/2018 22:49

Has anyone just seen JRM on Newsnight?
Words fail me Angry

woman11017 · 02/10/2018 22:54

Learning is its own reward. Like very slow jogging. Blush

FE and HE has been monetised ( and professionally decimated) to prohibit the working class, women and BME students from accessing it.

An ignorant populace is fatal to a healthy democracy.

Hence where we are.

Mightybanhammer · 02/10/2018 22:55

Hope I can join the #wooferendum march- my PA is just checking his diary...

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
Moussemoose · 02/10/2018 22:55

PCPlums you need to build a big wall to stop any more economic migrants. He is eating the dreamies that belong to resident cats.

woman11017 · 02/10/2018 22:58

Oooh, I'm not sure, Somerville tbh .I think it was Edith. Will check out the Philippa.!

Somerville · 02/10/2018 23:12

Well thanks MightyBanHammer. The thing is. I didn’t spring from my mother’s womb able to communicate decently in discussions online. I needed to gain skills like good SPAG and a turn of phrase or two, and to learn about the world and form my own opinions on it and most importantly of all to be able to back those opinions up. I got almost all of that from university. Smile Wheras many in my parents generation were written of as stupid and unworthy because of dyslexia or Irish accents or their own parents jobs or their biology. And from what I’ve seen with my brilliantly clever nephew with ASD the education system still makes massive mistakes when deciding who is clever and worthy.
I’m sure there are more teens who should have wider options than those on offer. To that point, I agree with you. But if someone loves Norse mythology then how dare anyone else say they’re not worthy enough to study Norse mythology?

SusanWalker · 02/10/2018 23:34

Is it just me or is anyone else desperately trying to resist heading to Amazon to buy a book on Norse mythology. I really want to know about it now. But I have just ordered East West Street and am trying to save money so I must not.

prettybird · 02/10/2018 23:44

I've just had to buy "Barbarism & Civilization" by Wasserstein for ds' 20th Century European History course at Uni (set text but out of stock locally Confused).

Shame that most some of our politicians don't seem to have understood the lessons from history Hmm or even want to Angry

PCPlumsTruncheon · 02/10/2018 23:46

mobile.twitter.com/MelisssfMelissa/status/1047126466541047808/photo/2

Seems pretty accurate. I hope people don’t mind the slight cat/dog derailing. I am actually angry and terrified but, if I couldn’t laugh about the madness of Brexit now and again, I would go mad.