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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

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Thomasinaa · 01/10/2018 23:45

So you're saying that all the supposed arguments in cabinet, and "negotiations" with Barnier, have been a sham?

Peregrina · 01/10/2018 23:45

Presumably they will have to pull the Army back from Afghanistan and where-ever else.

Peregrina · 01/10/2018 23:47

I think negotiations haven't been a sham as such. I think it's just that May doesn't negotiate - when asked a question she can't or won't answer she just repeats an already prepared sentence. I don't think she even realises that this is not negotiating.

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 00:20

Britain prepared to stay in the customs Union until deal is struck on NI?

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 00:21

UK tax haven

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 00:23

Oh look this is the third type of Brexit on the same day.

The times give you beano brexit
The Express give you tax haven brexit
And the mail true to form give you anti immigrant brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 00:26

The I tells us the terrifying news that 1 in 2 women over 45 will get Parkinsons, alzheimers or have a stroke. Next to a picture of Boris Johnson.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 00:29

And the telegraph for some mysterfying reason things telling us dogs are stupid compared to pigeons is worthy of the front page

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 00:30

And Scottish tories join the Anyone But Boris Club

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
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Peregrina · 02/10/2018 01:13

All very depressing. Tax cuts won't help those who are out of work on minimum wage.

I wonder which newspaper has the finger on the pulse of the nation? Not the Express. Possibly the Mail?

Havabiscuit · 02/10/2018 02:48

I think there are individuals in the Tory party who have always wanted a no deal Brexit. Davis, Raab, Fox and the ERG. I suspect May also (she is just a stooge for them) but, funnily enough, not Boris. Boris just wants to be popular.
I really hope the forces for good prevail before we are all screwed.

borntobequiet · 02/10/2018 04:31

I looked up synonyms and antonyms for negotiate. It’s pretty clear that the antonyms are winning
www.thesaurus.com/browse/negotiate
My faves are confuse, contend, disagree, deny and ignore.

borntobequiet · 02/10/2018 06:19

Farming Today:
Farmers unhappy about Agriculture Bill that contains nothing about agriculture...also the importance of worms.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000m9k

frumpety · 02/10/2018 06:44

I wish the farming community would wake up to the fact that they are irrelevant to this Conservative government. Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2018 06:50

Referendum only way to heal Brexit divisions, says top German politician

A key CDU politcian, Norbert Röttgen, also joined widespread criticism of Hunt's irresponsible speech,
but urged both Britain and the EU to make concessions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/02/referendum-only-way-to-heal-brexit-divisions-says-top-german-politician

Quietrebel · 02/10/2018 07:00

From affluence to Soylent...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6229029/Now-sale-UK-high-protein-meal-glass-health-drink.html

The brand must be a reference to the 70s Soylent Green film, the ending of which traumatised me (watched it way too young)...
A taste of what's to come?

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 07:09

Jennifer Williams @jenwilliamsMEN
Late night Tory conference bar is like a disorienting computer game. Mainly it’s a sea of identical white men but occasionally the algorithm throws up a woman or someone from an ethnic minority just to confuse you

Drunk delegate in a three piece suit to police officers: I love this country. Brexit, not Brexit. I love this country
Police officer: ok. The yellow arch you’re looking for is over there
DD: Thankyou so much, I really feel for all of you
Cop: ok. It’s over there

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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 07:12

John Johnston @johnjohnstonmi
Now been told by two people that there a group of activists preparing to start a slow clap if the Prime Minister says the word ‘Chequers’ during her conference speech. Oh boy.....

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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 07:18

Peter Walker @ Peterwalker99
Chris Grayling breezily tells questioner from Siemens that in event of a no deal Brexit his company’s just-in-time supply chains will be fine. He says there will be “alternative routes” to Dover-Calais. What are they, chair asks? “We’re still working on them,” Grayling replies.

In other news, I’ve had to deliver the first gentle elbow in the ribs of this Tory conference to wake a snoozing fringe attendee in seat next to me to stop him slumping into my lap. A more common occurrence than you might think, especially at events, like this one, serving wine.

We are building a bridge to Europe too???!

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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 07:22

Dawn Foster @dawnhfoster
Asked some young Tories what policies they thought would attract voters under 30 to the party, and they replied "bring back public hanging" and "Scramble for Africa 2.0" #CPC18

This is the second time I have been told, entirely seriously, by young Conservatives here, that colonialism should be Britain's post Brexit future.

For comparison, Labour youth I asked said "free education", "affordable housing", and "nationalised trains"

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RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 07:26

Esther Webber @estwebber
Brandon Lewis on @gmb says he's looking forward to a "smooth and successful day" for Theresa May's speech tomorrow - so we know who jinxed it if it goes wrong

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frumpety · 02/10/2018 07:40

Young Tories say bring back public hangings, hope their education didn't cost their parents too much ?

frumpety · 02/10/2018 07:41

Feel free to report my last post if too grisly for you.

1tisILeClerc · 02/10/2018 07:42

{This is the second time I have been told, entirely seriously, by young Conservatives here, that colonialism should be Britain's post Brexit future.}
At least there is something to brighten the day. I think 'aww, bless' is the right comment, followed by a very patronising pat on the head.

RedToothBrush · 02/10/2018 07:50

Robert Peston @ peston
@DominicRaab, Brexit secretary, crystal clear in interview with me: @BorisJohnson call for Northern Ireland backstop to be negotiated after 29 March 2019 is same as saying UK wants no-deal Brexit; if PM followed his advice, she/we would go straight to no-deal withdrawal from EU

This is a good point. Talk about staying in customs Union until deal done on NI, sounds great if you are a remainer.

The problem is it stops the Withdrawal Agreement. The EU want NI sorted before anything else to create a fall back position.

This plan that the Times has been reporting, stops that.

It means that no Deal / accidental Brexit theoretically more not less likely with this approach.

Unless May is trying to play the Brexiters again and this is how she is selling it.

It would mean the UK doesn't have to make any agreement with the EU before the last hour of the last day. Then parliament would have no say at all.

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