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Brexit

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2018 23:25

The key phrase that was once parroted by all the lead Brexiteers, and repeated by their social media followers.

BUT curiously, it seems that those who once said it with such conviction seem to be backing away from it.

Take a lot around at who is saying it, and who no longer seem to be. Certainly not with the same force.

May, alone, seems to have decided to nail herself to the mast of No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal in her post Salzberg Toddler Strop. She seemed to be announcing that in practice No Deal was now official government policy, because the EU weren’t playing ball. It wasn’t an abandonment of Chequers but it seemed close to it.

But who else is still saying it? It would seem its only the die hards on twitter and the Nigel Farage / Arron Banks camp.

Not people with tangible power. Not people who have to actually vote on the matter. Apart from Theresa.

David Davis who at one point seemed to be saying it every other day, now seems - along with Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson - to have moved to a Canada Plus position. They don’t seem to be anywhere near so enthusiastic about a No Deal. The ERG as a whole largely seems to be backing off the idea, though if it happened, they probably wouldn’t be too upset. They just they are starting to see more risk than even than even they would like to hazard as a first choice, contained within No Deal. When No Deal is starting to be perceived as too risky for disaster capitalists, you might start to pay attention.

But nope. Not Theresa.

Theresa has very firmly got it into her head that this is her ‘Iron Lady’ moment. The rhetoric about not being for turning, is deliberately evocative to a certain group. She’s trying to get a deal like Thatcher got with the CAP from the EU. Except we’ve been there and done that and politically is that even an option for the EU to do that in our current political climate with Trump and the Rise of the Authoritarians.

May’s previous track record, also points to her stubborness going above and beyond the point where it is sensible - or even sane - to continue to pursue. She is pig headed to the point of spite. She takes things personally when things going against her. In the Home Office she took cases to appeal which defy all sense of logic and public interest purpose. Its been up to the courts to tell her no in, no uncertain terms before she has eventually stopped. And in some cases she ignored this. Its petty, its arrogant and right now it's a clear and present danger to the national interest.

The Cabinet who have remained loyal to May up to this point, are also starting to recognise the danger. The Times has reported that Raab, Gove, Hunt and Javid are in this camp and May can not necessarily rely on them. They are said to be leaning towards the ERG position.

The problem being that the DUP seem to be going in the opposite direction in leaning towards a softer Brexit. They label both Chequerers and Canada as unworkable. The reality of the border is kicking in, in the circle that matters. The DUP can not ignore nor underestimate the potential for rising support for a United Ireland.

Theresa as a committed Unionist is now very much at odds with the DUP.

May also is facing rebellion for a reported 40 MPs over Canada, according to Amber Rudd. Again they are pushing for a softer option.

In the background is the revised labour policy which now supports a People’s Vote, if they can’t force a General Election. They also won’t support a deal for May. It's something of a fudged position with limited effect, but it's a move to a softer position than previously. Shadow Brexit Secretary Keir Starmer, also is alleged to have challenged the leadership by saying Remain would be an option during the Labour conference. McDonnell has very much denied this.

In October 2016, it was said by Donald Tusk that it was a choice between a very Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

It was also said by the former Polish Finance Minister that Hard Brexit was the easiest political choice for both the UK and Europe.
www.straitstimes.com/opinion/the-political-logic-of-hard-brexit

For everything that has gone on in the last two years, these two points of view seem to be holding up better than the majority that any British commentator has come out with.

And whilst Theresa might now be the only one still saying no deal is better than a bad deal, she is perhaps the closest to the political reality of the dynamics of how everything is going.

Her Salzburg speech, definitely came from a mess of her own making, as she was unable and unwilling to take different political approaches and she lacked pragmatism and flexibility. But at the same time, where she is now is also a result of always being something of a hostage to political circumstance too.

Her speech can also be read as an inadvertent announcement and a warning of ‘accidental no deal’ because she does recognise that all alternative political solutions domestically are impossible to her and she can only be saved by the EU. That’s not taking back control. That’s begging for a way out and for the EU to solve British political problems, which they have always said they would not intervene in.

And isn’t that just the irony.

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BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2018 13:46

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-jeremy-hunt-history-book-ussr-comparison-conservative-conference-a8563126.html
A Commission spokesperson suggested Mr Hunt ... could benefit “from opening a history book from time-to-time” Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2018 13:48

Hunt is very ignorant about history.

During his visit to China as foreign secretary, he even forgot which country his wife comes from - she is Chinese, not Japanese as he said.

At least he managed to get the continent correct - which may be why May made him Foreign Sec.

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 13:52

yougov.co.uk/news/2018/10/01/consumer-confidence-stumbles-house-price-fears-gro/

YouGov Consumer confidence stumbles as house price fears grow

UK consumer confidence has stumbled in September, falling to its lowest level in six months, analysis from YouGov and the Centre for Economics and Business Research finds.

The latest analysis shows that the YouGov/Cebr Consumer Confidence Index stands at 107.7 this month – down from 109.0 in August. The last time it was near this level was in March, when it stood at 107.6. While any score over 100 means more consumers are confident than unconfident, it is still notably below where it was before the EU referendum in 2016.

(contd)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2018 13:55

Won't matter politically until that confidence level goes well below 100

ShinyElena · 01/10/2018 14:01

Michael Deacon’s take on the Tory conference from twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

@MichaelPDeacon 2h2 hours ago

At the event about how the Tories can win in Middlesbrough, Jacob Rees-Mogg is now talking about the urgent need to cut taxes

@MichaelPDeacon 2h2 hours ago

Jacob Rees-Mogg says the Tories' message to people in Middlesbrough is: "We will make your lives a little bit better"

@MichaelPDeacon Sep 29

Have YOU got a workable plan for Brexit? Call each member of the Government now!

@MichaelPDeacon Sep 29

Of course we can sort out a technological solution to the Irish border. It's very simple. Now, here's the mobile numbers of the entire Cabinet

.‏ @twlldun Sep 28

Hey, you! Yes, you there. Would you like a picture of Chris Williamson, Conspiracist Loon and Dictator-Apologist MP for Derby North, looking sinister in front of a banner reading “Unity is Strength” whilst holding two spoons in a cross formation in front of him? You would? Well

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
SingingBabooshkaBadly · 01/10/2018 14:02

Hang on – the Project Fear stuff didn’t work too well first time around.

‘That’s because it wasn’t scary enough. This time we’ll claim that no deal means patients won’t get their medicines, mobile phone roaming charges will go through the roof and space debris will fall from the sky.’^

Honestly, it would be pathetic if it wasn’t so dangerous.

So, hang on, let’s clarify this. Raab is categorically assuring us we don’t need to worry about prescriptions? Glad we’ve got that on record.

Lovely, nothing to worry about. Hmm

Despicable bunch of liars, all of them.

woman11017 · 01/10/2018 14:10

.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
ShinyElena · 01/10/2018 14:14

While in Oxfordshire
MAY BE RUNNING - Boris Johnson appears to mock Theresa May by recreating her ‘naughtiest moment’ and running through a field of wheat ahead of Tory conference showdown

Former Foreign Secretary pictured out for a jog in Oxfordshire while rest of the party is in Birmingham – as he prepares to address rally to force the Prime Minister to ‘chuck Chequers’ and fuel his bid to oust her from Number 10

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7387835/boris-johnson-appears-to-mock-theresa-may-by-recreating-her-naughtiest-moment-and-running-through-a-field-of-wheat-ahead-of-tory-conference-showdown/

Peregrina · 01/10/2018 14:16

Now Pub food has definitely improved over the last 30 - 40 years. I credit the influence of European travel and cookery for that.

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 14:23

Now Pub food has definitely improved over the last 30 - 40 years. I credit the influence of European travel and cookery for that.

Not round here. Or rather if it has, I dread to think how bad it would have been 30-40 years ago. It was certainly better 25 years ago.

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 14:24

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45700112

Producers of Welsh food and drink protected under EU rules have told BBC Wales that the lack of progress in the Brexit talks is "very concerning".

The future of the EU's Protected Food Name system after Brexit remains unresolved

(contd)

One bit which caught my eye:

Of all the Welsh lamb exports, 92% is sold to EU countries where the PFN schemes have a "massive recognition amongst the consuming public".

Oh dear.

Peregrina · 01/10/2018 14:26

Thanks for that link Shiny.
See if you can help May dodge Corbyn as she runs through a field of wheat.

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 14:26

Looks like the cover to a Dennis Wheatley book.

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 14:28

Former Foreign Secretary pictured out for a jog in Oxfordshire while rest of the party is in Birmingham

Interesting he chooses to stay two counties away ....

prettybird · 01/10/2018 14:32

Is it just me or does that photo of Williamson make him look like a human Dalek? Grin

Maybe that's the intention, "Ex-Ter-Mi-Nate, Ex-Ter-Mi-Nate!" .....ultimately, fewer people to feed and a Master Race to service Wink

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 14:35

You just know Wheatley would have been a Brexiteer. Although they may not have fully accepted him with his racist-lite views Grin.

(The problem with noting that is it's an admission that I must have read at least one DW book ...)

TheElementsSong · 01/10/2018 14:36

Is it just me or does that photo of Williamson make him look like a human Dalek?

I believe on Twitter he's been likened to an Alakazam Grin

Westministenders: “No Deal is Better Than a Bad Deal?”
DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 14:37

Graham Hughes from #3Blokes Chats With Mike Galsworthy (Scientists For EU)

TheElementsSong · 01/10/2018 14:37

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/01/twitter-reacts-to-mays-brexit-festival-plan

"Pin the blame on a Remainer" Grin

derxa · 01/10/2018 14:56

Michael Gove at the Conservative Party conference. Discussing farming, fishing and the environment. I'm convinced. No one else discusses our concerns. I hate Gove but.. Am I on the wrong thread?

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 15:15

Speaking of the environment, I wonder how the landscape will fare when the UK is no longer bound by the EUs waste directives ?

One way to dramatically reduce building costs is to reduce the cost of landfill. Of course, the cheaper it is, the more you use ...

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2018 15:29

Good to hear at least Gove seems to be doing his ministerial job

derxa · 01/10/2018 15:32

Good to hear at least Gove seems to be doing his ministerial job Well he doesn't really represent us Scottish farmers but he did turn up at The Royal Highland Show which was pretty brave of him. I hated him as Education Sec. but he does seem to have a vision for the environment.

DGRossetti · 01/10/2018 15:35

Good to hear at least Gove seems to be doing his ministerial job Well he doesn't really represent us Scottish farmers but he did turn up at The Royal Highland Show which was pretty brave of him.

Well, he is Scottish.

ShinyElena · 01/10/2018 15:44

My favourite anti-Brexit movement: Stand of Defiance European Movement (SODEM) www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/01/conservative-conference-hammond-says-johnson-will-never-be-pm-politics-live at 14:39

I also came to the conclusion that JRM must be saying some of these things today for a bet. In the morning he suggested that tax cuts would appeal to voters Middlesborough (as opposed to jobs).

In the afternoon:
“I think there’s lots of failures of propaganda really that we have allowed Brexit to be about immigration or putting up barriers or not liking going on holiday in Europe. It’s none of that. It’s about who runs your government, do you or somebody else,” he said.

“I think that’s a really popular argument with young people and we need to get out there and make it and try and get away from the Ukip-isation of Brexit. I think the Ukip view, you may think it’s odd for me to say, of some sepia tinted 1950s view of Brexit has never been my vision of Brexit. Its about being a global nation rather than a narrow European one.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/oct/01/conservative-conference-hammond-says-johnson-will-never-be-pm-politics-live at 14:18