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Brexit

Westministenders: Gin O'Clock

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 21/09/2018 14:08

After disaster after Salzberg and a very predictable humilation over the Chequers Deal which the ERG reject, moderate Brexiteers reject, Remainers reject and the EU reject....

May does a press conference...

...which is delayed by a power shortage inside No. 10.

And....

GinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGin
GinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGinGin

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DGRossetti · 22/09/2018 17:22

Anyway, back to Brexit. Or what's left of it.

I notice the Next Big Thing (apparently) is a cabinet meeting on Monday. If we move past the "what's the point ?" part of the discussion, there are some questions that spring to mind.

  1. Quite who is actually now negotiating Brexit ? We know its "the Chequers plan", we know it was put together at the insistence of Theresa May. We also know before it was delivered to the world two cabinet ministers felt unable to put their names to it.

  2. Assuming - as May has announced via every channel (including, apparently, Telex Hmm) that it stands and won't be changed, then what scope or sense is there in any further resignations (which are being rumoured) ?

  3. Are the real powerbrokers in/behind the Tory party binding Mays premiership to Chequers ? Meaning that if the Tories want to continue with May, they have to accept Chequers/No-deal is the way we are headed. Conversely, is that a signal that the only way to shift from Chequers is to shift May ? (I can see such ambiguity playing out to the Tories ... it allows them to claim they wanted one thing, but "accidentally" got the other. John Major suddenly makes sense ...)

  4. Labours "let's not talk about Brexit" strategy might be slightly backfiring on them, since - as predicted, expected, and indeed happening - with "Brexit" starting to fill every paper in every story, the absence of the word "Labour" anywhere near them gives the impression they aren't relevant to the discussion Hmm

DW and I did a mini-food audit, and reckon we can easily go 2 weeks with what we usually have in stock, if we don't mind a less varied diet. We've got a dormant touring caravan that has a gas stove (and fridge !) if the worst came to the worst. My personal thought is that if 2 weeks prepping isn't enough, then no amount is ... we're pretty much into anarchy.

We've got a petrol generator (from vanning days). But it's a noisy thing, so not really something you can use discreetly. Obviously any battery power will be limited if you can't charge, so we'd rely on the manual wheelchair - but we have a backup chair, if needs be, since spare parts (like brakes which go regularly) might be difficult to source.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 22/09/2018 17:47

For those who occasionally pop up on this thread thinking that the rest of the world doesn't see this shambles for what it is, here's an Australian perspective.

www.smh.com.au/world/europe/send-help-may-s-extraordinary-brexit-speech-reveals-her-unusual-tactics-20180922-p505ci.html

1tisILeClerc · 22/09/2018 17:54

I am sure there would be some redundant car manufacturer types who could sort you chair out in a 'McGuyver sort of way.
In terms of overall strategy and 'why the hell is this happening' who or what is 'Mr Big' behind it all?
Once you have more than a few tens of million quid, life gets a bit boring surely?

RedToothBrush · 22/09/2018 18:09

@WomensPlace are arguably having a degree of success, with grass roots campaigning. Women are doing what pro EU folks are and giving out leaflets and talking to people in the street

It's actually where a lot of the LD success lies and why they are more popular at local level. It's also why Ukip ultimately falter too, because the ethos of kippers isn't founded on the basis of community.

It's strangely where a split within the LDs also lies. The insular party fantanics who are on all the executives and federal groups are a different beast to the local parties and activitist who do the local doorstopping. They tend to socialise only with each other, live in a self imposed twitter echo chamber and have rather narrow views of politics unlike those who engage more with the general population. This isn't being talked about in the context of the LDs.

Which is kind of strange, because I know that this is also a similar tension within Labour between 'armchair activists' and doorstoppers. There is resentment and a lack of mutual respect which often runs along the well known faction lines.

This is why you have a number of points of conflict where the LD central party of the take a some what controversial line. For example being pro decriminalisation of marijuana.

Local parties with a serious chance of winning a seat (at local or national level) make a point of down playing such policies, in their local correspondence cos they know it goes down like a lead balloon. And instead tends to be taken as an example of showing how out of touch the party are with public sentiment. It essentially undoes all the grass roots work that local activism has had success with.

Again the same thing with Labour. I've heard numerous people supportive of Labour in general terms, until you say the word 'Corbyn' and its like a complete change of personality occurs in the person you are talking to. It's quite something to see unfold.

The insistence of central parties in publicising such policies so heavily can be deeply unpopular within parts of their own party because it makes their lives much more difficult on a practical level. Just ask Tories who had to try and sell the ill thought out publicity around the dementia tax.

My personal opinion is that grass roots stuff is enormously popular and there isn't the understanding of this, that there should be. Its overlooked by the media because of the politics of personality. It can be very niche and frankly dull as hell.

BUT it's also why you get people ranting about the state of their local high street when talking to 2nd ref activists. The state of the high street has got fuck all to do with the EU. And once you get the predictable rant done, you can get behind that to the stuff underneath.

The problem is that local politics is so tribal - if you live in an area which is tribally always the same, there is no need to do grass roots stuff - there is no opportunity to engage in a meaningful way over politics.

People want the opportunity for their concerns to be taken seriously and to simply be acknowledged in lots of cases. That means people on the streets.

I also note here the British taxation system is incredibly centralised and that also feeds this huge resentment. Money for a huge number of things comes from central government rather than locals being able to decide their own priorities to the same extent that exists in other EU countries.

All this stuff about the Westminster bubble is connected to this.

Of course the inequality and regional divides make it more difficult for the UK to spent tax revenues in the area they were collected. We are unique in this respect. And I'm not sure how that gets resolved.

The whole thing of the Northern Powerhouse and local mayors was intended to try and tackle that. But no power has come with the roles and the Northern Powerhouse is a policy that May's government would happily ditch but for the fact that the concept is surprisingly popular on the ground.

Councils going bust left right and centre will again compound the same problem of lack of grass roots stuff.

But out of the council crisis, is coming meaningful local activism. People are being forced to do something to protect what little their communities have. It is breaking the tribalism.

I think it will come a lot more to the fore too.

Any form of widespread civil unrest is also likely to produce a similar effect - though not necessarily in healthy outlets. You will have highly organised communities able to fall back on their existing local leadership, but you are also at risk of vigilante and gang land style communities exploding in the power and economic vacuum thats about to appear.

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1tisILeClerc · 22/09/2018 18:18

{ but you are also at risk of vigilante and gang land style communities exploding in the power and economic vacuum thats about to appear.}
Hints of NI?

RedToothBrush · 22/09/2018 18:20

Hints of NI?

Thats where my thought process is going, yes.

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RedToothBrush · 22/09/2018 18:22

Coupled with a rise in private security in better off areas.

Think Brazil

Also see the rise of proper slums.

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SusanWalker · 22/09/2018 18:25

Apologies if this has already been posted but I thought it an excellent summary of the last few days.
chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/09/britain-is-humiliating-itself.html

DGRossetti · 22/09/2018 18:45

From the Aus article ...

“Give me what I want or I will hit myself with this brick and give you my money” is not the best negotiating tactic. Nevertheless, it’s Britain’s.

GrinSadBlush

1tisILeClerc · 22/09/2018 18:56

I spotted that too @DGR, thee are some superb lines in that report. The Chris Grey is good too in a sad way.

MyBrexitUnicornDied · 22/09/2018 19:02

Interesting link ohlookhekicked I love the username too.

My favourite quote from that article about May’s speech

“We chose Brexit. I’m out of ideas on how to make it work the way I want. Send help.”

woman11017 · 22/09/2018 19:05

Councils going bust left right and centre will again compound the same problem of lack of grass roots stuff
Post, 'The Fall' as James Patrick calls it, the grass roots pro EU groups may be very useful for just the day to day practicalities of Shock surviving it. It's what's happening with the opposition in Turkey.
If, of course, emergency legislation allows people to help each other. Hmm

Hazardswan · 22/09/2018 20:00

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-early-election-theresa-may-brexit-deal-jeremy-corbyn-negotiations-a8550186.html

Nothing we didn't know - labour attempting to force election....mumsnet got a mention with the bellend McDonnell webchat.

1tisILeClerc · 22/09/2018 20:21

Farage on the loose in Bolton.
He is doing the BoJo talk, every third line has a semblance of truth about it, but can actually work either way.

xuana · 22/09/2018 20:42

Has this been posted yet?

beergbrexit.blog/2018/09/21/bad-week-for-may/

I've only just come across this blogger - apologies if the link doesn't work, it's the Beerg brexit blog.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2018 20:52

Tory papers are describing May's speech as her "Falklands Moment" Confused

Did we watch the same speech ?
I saw an embarassed, awkward woman who looked near to tears, of rage and / or self-pity
Worrying, not inspiring

I remember MrsT during the Falklands and the only thing they have in common is their sex
The Tories seem to be playing the role of the Argentinians

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2018 20:54

From that Chris Grey link by susan :

"Brexit has encountered reality, and all the bluster and bullying that Brexiters use to deride and silence their opponents is completely ineffective when conducting international negotiations.
It only goes to make the country look unpleasant and rather stupid.
That is the humiliation, and it has been brought upon us by Brexiters and the Brexit government"

woman11017 · 22/09/2018 21:01

describing May's speech as her "Falklands Moment
The Battle of the Cherries.

DGRossetti · 22/09/2018 21:03

.

Westministenders: Gin O'Clock
1tisILeClerc · 22/09/2018 21:07

The trouble is it is putting satirical comedy writers out of business.
Even Jim Hacker would have sorted something out by now.

Mrsr8 · 22/09/2018 21:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 22/09/2018 21:14

@Mrsr8

Same FB feeds ? Grin

woman11017 · 22/09/2018 21:15

Something's kicking off in Finland.
@akihheikkinen
No-Fly Zone declared to Finnish archipelago area.

National Bureau of Investigation jointly with other authorities conducting multiple searches of unnamed company's properties over financial crimes. twitter.com/krp_poliisi/status/1043366426554363904 … map image: hs.fi (outzoomed)

Westministenders: Gin O'Clock
mathanxiety · 22/09/2018 21:44

I just posted this on the old thread:

TM now offers the civil and human rights of the Three Million as part of a deal.

She is playing political games with the lives of real people, men, women and children.

This is what the EU are dealing with. She has told them who she is and what she stands for.

I hope they highlight the cynicism and the evil here in their response.