Not the Brexit Arms again

[Bearbehind]

I'm guessing surfer won't start another thread as the questions were getting a bit difficult on the last one. 😂

Thought this was worthy of discussion though

So it turns out those pesky EU immigrants actually contribute more than the average UK citizen.

Who knew 🤔

Don't be stupid, its a significant loss of life, an extra coach crash per year with no survivors.

However i think you know you are wrong and are just being an idiot.

Frumpety

I didn’t realise you had a point

Do you have a point?

Jasjas

You are absolutely right - but ‘the case of the chlorinated chicken’ still isn’t serious enough to derail Brexit is it...

Being irreversible doesn't make it undemocratic
Jasjas, it was undeniably democratic because it was put to a democratic vote.

It is (kind of) irreversible because a decision like this just doesn't lend itself to moving in or out every five years on the whim of the electorate - that would be chaos and the EU wouldn't have any stability.
Just because it's the type of decision that doesn't lend itself to being reconsidered very often doesn't mean the vote itself wasn't democratic.

Not really anymore , I have reached that age where pointiness has given in to gravity. But if you are talking about a point relating to Brexit then yes , but you are never going to concede it

instead ?

Wine o'clock, anyone?

Frumpety

We will have to agree to differ then. But if you can’t understand why a referendum with an undeniably high turnout has a moral mandate then we are on a hiding to nothing.

Here, try some chlorinated chicken :)

{Henry is known for his radical changes to the English Constitution, ushering into England the theory of the divine right of kings. Besides asserting the sovereign's supremacy over the Church of England, he greatly expanded royal power during his reign. Charges of treason and heresy were commonly used to quell dissent, and those accused were often executed without a formal trial, by means of bills of attainder. He achieved many of his political aims through the work of his chief ministers, some of whom were banished or executed when they fell out of his favour.}
I'm bored with chicken. What do we reckon to these ideas.
Trials for Treason, and executions should liven up the proceedings.

Hint, Individual ministers without Parliament can change laws 'at will'.
100 hour working week, abolish the welfare state, all possible.
A touch more worrying than a chicken.
Of course the EU is pushing for INCREASED welfare and reasonable hours of work.

Doesn't that tell us that if the consensus is right, and it's likely to be, then it doesn't really matter much if we stay or go?

I do find many of your comments quite odd for a Remainer megan

Bear, I really love the (business) research that indicates diverse teams make better decisions 87% of the time and need half the amount of meetings to do it. I work in a very diverse environment and this is often quoted. I take some comfort from the fact that there was a large turn out and the electorate is diverse, and I do have (at least a bit of) faith in the consensus. Especially after, as I said earlier, there has not been a dramatic shift in opinion over the past two years of hard debate.

I don't think that's an odd thing to say?

Moral mandate, now that is a really interesting turn of phrase. Just had a little look at the word moral and it throws up honest. Mandate throws up instruction. If the first isn't so then how can the second proceed ?

That doesn’t change the fact that you are going to need a different ‘smoking gun’ if you wish to try and convince the overwhelming numbers of people who don’t read threads like this, no longer care about Brexit to the extent we do and couldn’t care less if their chicken was chlorinated or pickled.

Clearly.

There's none so blind as those who cannot see.

Megan that isn't what I thought was odd.

What was odd was you seemed to be saying it makes no odds whether we stay or leave.

I said that the consensus indicates that it's pretty much as wide as long.

I haven’t seen any mention on here of the EU/US TTIP deal (if it ever gets done) which would likely lead to PAA acid washed chicken. Similar thing is it not?

interesting article (from 2015) as don’t think much has happened more recently - good job Trump turned up when he did

www.foeeurope.org/sites/default/files/eu-us_trade_deal/2015/ttip_chicken_briefing_-_march_2015.pdf

No it doesn't megan

The consensus in the actual referendum was reached by people who didn't have all the facts.

They still don't - no one does.

Having a consensus doesn't make it the right thing to do.

It doesn't mean the outcomes would be equal whatever the route chosen.

If it were clearly going to be worse, wouldn't say 90% of people be saying they'd vote Remain now? And wouldn't the Remainers have been able to put forward more compelling arguments and changed more Leavers' minds in the intervening two years, than the paltry 4%? I'm saying that the consensus indicates it's not a clear cut decision at all, and that I have some faith in the consensus because it's millions of very different people.

But let's get back to chlorinated chicken.

Seriously megan, for a so called Remainer you have a very odd train of thought.

It is 'clearly going to be worse'

The fact people are choosing to ignore that doesn't make it untrue.

Show me a positive Brexit prediction.

Show me government technical papers with a positive outcome.

@Megan Unfortunately, history does show us that the majority are not always correct.

Perhaps one most relevant on MN is women's suffrage, the majority held out long and hard against it, they were still wrong.

As Tolstoy wrote: “Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”

But yes it is possible that Brexit will be an overwhelming success but it is imho still an undemocratic decision.

Applying a little logic:
The EU rules state that 'deals' with any country outside the EU will always be 'worse' than to it's members. Entirely logical.
Therefore if the UK is wanting to do significantly better than the deals it has with the EU (meaning tariff rates and all the trimmings of shared red tape etc) it will have to do stonking good deals with other countries to make up for the WTO trade rules which average around 10% worse than EU tariffs. Who will trade in sufficient range of goods, essentially USA /India/China/Russia. So far Mr Fox has come up with a paltry £4 Billion deal, on paper, from Africa who do not have much money.

Is no one else worried that individual ministers will be able to change any of the laws currently held jointly with the EU?

But they would have the option of bringing back purchase tax, at 25% so a winner for the Govt.

Leclerc

Better that than rule from foreign soil

Better that than rule from foreign soil

Ahhhhhhh the irony..........

Parliament is sovereign we 'rule' ourselves.

{Leclerc
Better that than rule from foreign soil}
Such a pathetic reply from you it is hardly worth the electrons.
Have a look at the proposals by Javid, Mogg and others will do to the quality of life for women and families.