Not the Brexit Arms again

[Bearbehind]

I'm guessing surfer won't start another thread as the questions were getting a bit difficult on the last one. 😂

Thought this was worthy of discussion though

So it turns out those pesky EU immigrants actually contribute more than the average UK citizen.

Who knew 🤔

{Ah, but are they 'foreign nationals' or 'immmergrunts'?}
If they are paying a lot of tax (as a doctor) and stopping you bleeding to death, does it really matter?

Which countries in the EU have 'open' borders ? knickers

Not to me it doesn't leClerc, but we all know that to some there is the 'right kind' and the 'wrong kind' of foreigner.

We don't have open borders, knickers. But, you know that really, don't you?

As most countries are finding you cant have open borders and a welfare state

Which countries have found this out?

Many European countries have better rates of cancer detection/survival, lower wait times and better outcomes, indeed the NHS is sending elective surgery cases to France, with a 4 week wait...Schengen anybody? lol!

We consistently spend 1% less per year on health, year on year that adds up to a significant difference in spending.
the NHS can claim back any costs via the EHIC scheme, but doesn't or maybe EU nationals are not a drain on the NHS ?

"Britain has paid out more than £900 million to EU countries to cover the costs of ­ British patients who fell ill abroad – and received just £49 million back for NHS treatment of overseas visitors, according to new figures"

The NHS is in a state because of a deliberate policy of barely managed decline. The Tories are famous for it.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is either a liar or an idiot.

An EHIC card shows you are entitled to free or subsidised healthcare across the EU. The different countries have negotiated deals so that members can access healthcare when needed. Some countries require you to have 'top up' insurance so that basic or emergency care is covered but longer term issues may require payment (insurance covered).
In the USA you present your credit card when you arrive at hospital or doctor and they make a credit check to make sure you are covered.

No-one thought this would be a smooth ride.

Rubbish
Try these

Peregrina, these quotes are all about the difficulty in settling the terms of leaving and the trade agreements. I was talking about short term volatility in financial markets, so your response is not relevant.

Unnecessary

Your bias is blinding you - labour and tories have played pass the parcel with the nhs for decades. The question is, on who’s watch will it all go off...

As for eu immigrants: surgeon or fruit picker I don’t care - they are welcome.

But freedom of movement is not controlled or planned and is wrong

As most countries are finding you cant have open borders and a welfare state.

But EU migrants had a positive effect on the welfare state not a negative one?

EU migrants contributed £2,300 more p.a. to the exchequer than the average adult . Over a lifetime EU migrants paid £73,000 more in tax than they take out in benefits. By comparison the average U.K. citizen's net lifetime contribution is zero.

It was always possible to take measures within the EU legal framework to ensure EEA nationals did not benefit from the welfare state.We could and did do this.

Only 1.9 per cent of those claiming out-of-work benefits in 2015-16 were EEA migrants because most Europeans came to the UK to work (hard).

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/eu-migrant-workers-contribute-£2300-more-per-year-to-uk-than-average-british-citizen-study-reveals/ar-BBNuuid

@Lonely
Leavers/Brexiteers don't believe in facts, it has to be unicorn all the way through.

My long gone Yorkshire grandma used to say that " truth will out" . There's also " truth prevails" , and " information is wealth".

I buy into this and just can't let facts go, but will try harder...Wasn't this thread meant to be the fluffy and frothy one or something anyway?

FOM is fantastic, its the UKs failing to implement the benefit rules, having a non contributory benefits system that is the problem and that businesses have exploited it, with zero regulation ie ZHC.

I suppose since it is Friday we ought to be getting some music on and open up the drinks cabinet failing that, cheap cider from the supermarket whilethereissome--.

Am planning a booze cruise in March. Have to make sure those cabinets are full before B day...

Good one 1tisILeClerc it’s Friday get the drinks in!

Waste your own time finding old speeches if you like.

It took me all of about 3 seconds to find the links I did, to show that leading Brexiters opined that it would be easy. And I am sick and tired of leavers now telling us that they knew it wouldn't be easy!

I was talking about short term volatility in financial markets, so your response is not relevant.

You might have been, but as already pointed out, you weren't the one influencing the general public. Fox, Gove, Davis and Co were talking about easiest deals in history etc. and weren't hedging them with caveats in the small print and they need to be held to account. I don't know why Leavers don't want to do so.

As for the NHS: yes it needs reform, because it wasn't designed to do the job it's now expected to do and new treatments have come along, but leaving the EU is not going initiate the debate we need about the NHS. "Leave the EU and smash the NHS" would not have been a vote winner and you all know it.

Peregrina

The thing is, a competent government might have made leaving look easy... back in 2016. Now it’s all getting a bit late on in the day

Did the 2016 Government look competent? I suppose that depends on your view of Cameron, Osborne and Gove. I must admit I didn't think anyone could be worse than Cameron until May came along.

The thing is, a competent government might have made leaving look easy...

This is perhaps the thing i really don't get, you guys n gals, who i believe genuinely want the best for the UK (your just wrong) put your faith in our incompetent politicians to transform the UK over x years, it wont happen.

Take the schools funding crisis, most politicians send their kids to independent schools they dont give a fcuk about your jimmy or jenny in a class of 36 and you buying text books, music and art cut and low attainment.

Politicians wont change, all we'll have is lower growth and less public spending, whatever May comes back with.

"The thing is, a competent government might have made leaving look easy... back in 2016. Now it’s all getting a bit late on in the day"

What would that have looked like? Negotiating involves two sides. In what way would a "competent " government have got the EU to change its "uphold the four pillars " position. Or solved the NI border question.

The thing is, a competent government might have made leaving look easy...

Actually, it was pretty clear even then that leaving was most certainly not going to be easy. Anyone with enough sense to look at Ireland and/or Gibraltar could see that immediately. But shills like 10 kept saying it was "project fear" and that it would all be sorted easily. Unfortunately there are still idiots who are happy to listen to the people who promised the "easiest deal in history" spouting their arrant nonsense and lapping it up despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Another point is that you always hear the Quitlings saying "Cameron should never have called the referendum".

This means that they realise that the result of the referendum is wrong ! So deep down they know that this is a disastrous decision!

Now they just need to admit it to themselves...

This means that they realise that the result of the referendum is wrong ! So deep down they know that this is a disastrous decision!

That’s quite some mental gymnastics going on there Cardinal

Really? Saying that he was wrong to call a referendum when you're supposedly glad that it went the way you wanted, pretty much means that you know that that was the wrong result.

Pretty much like not having a single clue about how to resolve the issues, or frankly, any fucking ideas at all about how we might possibly function outside the EU.