Not the Brexit Arms again

[Bearbehind]

I'm guessing surfer won't start another thread as the questions were getting a bit difficult on the last one. 😂

Thought this was worthy of discussion though

So it turns out those pesky EU immigrants actually contribute more than the average UK citizen.

Who knew 🤔

Leavers are usually more focused on the longer term benefits not the short term volatility. No-one thought this would be a smooth ride

Really? i'm not quite senile so can remember very well what was promised in 2016 and there was very little credence given to any longer term thinking... it is one reason i decided to vote remain, the promises by Leave were unrealistic both in substance and time scales.
Anyone stating the opinion Brexit would be bad for the economy was shouted down with the chant Project fear.

Why don't you find us all the speeches and advertisements by Leave emphasising volatility, short and longer term & that leaving will be a rocky ride etc etc instead of just changing the narrative now the reality is finally coming home?

This is your average MN remainer.
Worrying about their wealth.

Au contraire (pardon my French), I think most of us are actually worrying about the countries wealth. I.e. whether the country can afford, in particular, the NHS, schools, care for the elderly etc. etc..

It's only the Quitlings who think that making the country poorer is somehow a good thing. And even then they can't explain how it is good, except to mumble bullshit about "taking back control" or some other trite nonsense.

From Peregrina's link.

www.buzzfeed.com/philippjahner/21-design-qui-nont-visiblement-pas-du-tout-ete-reflechis?bfsource=bbf_frfr

I'm only telling you what all the Leavers in my workplace said at the time. I wasn't a Leaver, but I do work in banking/financial markets with a mix of leaver/remainer colleagues, and none of us ever thought it would be smooth, because obviously it wouldn't be, and this didn't put the leavers off in the slightest. Did you believe anyone telling you it would be smooth? I'm sure anyone would have disregarded any such statement at the time as being nonsense.

Surferjet

Well this certainly riled the mumsnet middle class remain set didn’t it.

Soon as you point out all they care about is money they soon crank up a notch

See the thing is very few people (even among remain voters) have genuine love for the eu project.

The problem her is that you and your work place are not the demographic that swung it for brexit, millions voted who hadn't voted before.

I agree with Ken Clarke who said that many did not vote because they wanted to come out of the SM, CU or even ECJ, they voted Leave because they felt they had been ignored by successive governments and the referendum gave them the chance to say "listen we are here" he went on to acknowledge he himself had ignored them too.

The shame of brexit is that it will lead to further alienation across all of society..

But for what it's worth, Mark Carney (supposedly neutral) did tell everyone it would be rocky. Some probably disregarded it as scaremongering, others thought even if it were true, the long term benefits were worth the short term volatility.

I'm not changing anyone's narrative. Waste your own time finding old speeches if you like.

One doesn't need to 'love the EU project' to be able to see that crashing out of it would be disastrous for the UK. Any more than one needs to think that, for example, the NHS is a faultless organisation to understand how utterly screwed we'd be without it.

The nhs is an unsustainable model - with or without Brexit

Motherof

You don’t credit millions of leavers with much sense do you

Perhaps they did an economic calculation and decided it was unlikely they would end up much worse off. Meanwhile, I’m mumsnet land...

The middle class has most to lose, hence we see middle class movements like the ridiculous ‘people’s vote’

After all, you never see white van man or mondeo man at such things do you... the silent majority want out, whatever this hardcore of 10 or so mumsnet commentators hellbent on remain think

{The nhs is an unsustainable model - with or without Brexit}
In that case it is your patriotic duty to remove yourself an all your family from the NHS system. Do not consider calling for an ambulance or having your teeth fixed.
Leave the remaining parts of the NHS to those that deserve it.
Bupa healthcare is about £8,000 a year, coming to you as soon as Mr Fox gets the ink to dry.

The nhs is an unsustainable model - with or without Brexit

Yes, I thought you might say that.

Still, in a few years, if the disaster-capitalist Brexiters get their way, you'll be paying through the nose for private healthcare anyway. So you'll get your wish.

Pity the poor fuckers who won't be able to afford it, though.

You don’t credit millions of leavers with much sense do you

LOL.

No.

Extract myself from the nhs system? No thanks, we pay enough tax thanks so I think I will stay put

Doesn’t change the fact that the nhs can’t carry on as it is.

Well, we agree on one thing, 10, the NHS can't carry on as it is.

I would suggest that's due to years of deliberate underfunding, the intentional collapse of social care and the exodus of EU staff.

I'm sure you'll have other ideas, though.

The nhs and Brexit are separate issues with different root causes.

Won’t stop any changes to the way the future nhs operates being blamed on Brexit though will it...

And the nhs might have an easier time of it had we not imported lots of foreign nationals into the country. More demand eats more resource

I knew! 😄

Boom, there it is.

It's actually quite satisfying, in a way.

{Extract myself from the nhs system? No thanks, we pay enough tax thanks so I think I will stay put}

You see there's the problem. You are not paying enough tax AND your governments have not been investing it wisely in the NHS, Schools and so many other areas of UK society.
You will be glad then with the privatised health service that the Tories are setting up (selling out to the Americans it seems) so you can pay less tax. This does of course directly translate into fewer 'public' services but then you voted for this.
It takes several years to train nurses and more for doctors, what are you going to do in April next year to cover for those that have left the UK? I suppose you could have more immigrants?

A significant number of EU 'foreign nationals' are doctors and nurses so you have argued against your own point.

A significant number of EU 'foreign nationals' are doctors and nurses so you have argued against your own point.

Ah, but are they 'foreign nationals' or 'immmergrunts'? It's so hard to keep up these days.

As most countries are finding you cant have open borders and a welfare state. The system simply collapses. Which means that you have to choose which you prefer, and the UK has chosen.

They can be doctors and nurses and still be foreign nationals

Which they are, as they aren’t British citizens!