Not the Brexit Arms again

[Bearbehind]

I'm guessing surfer won't start another thread as the questions were getting a bit difficult on the last one. 😂

Thought this was worthy of discussion though

So it turns out those pesky EU immigrants actually contribute more than the average UK citizen.

Who knew 🤔

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3377070-Who-do-you-believe-and-where-do-you-get-your-information-from-regarding-Brexit

Frumpety

You are not whinging so much as fighting a battle that has already been lost

There will be no people’s vote: we already had one...

Money that is currently in the UK belonging to my family has been devalued by around 3% or more. 1.5% because Mrs May had a rant after the meeting in Salzburg

See dear lurker.
This is your average MN remainer.
Worrying about their wealth.

Surferjet

That is the basic truth of threads like this - well off remainers worried about their bank account and whether they have to go through passport control on the annual pilgrimage to Marbella

At least a blue passport will be easy to spot in the hand luggage

Many remainers (not all) will be ok after Brexit. I will. Secure job, savings, small mortgage. The urban middle class will be less badly effected than many others.

The people who are always impacted by economic decline are the poor. It is always the least well off who suffer most in times of crisis. The MN middle class of your imagining are categorically not the ones who will suffer most. This imaginary group have the money and resources to leave or look after themselves.

The people being hung out are the people who can't escape. The people whose voices have not been listened to will find themselves with fewer rights and protections and no jobs.

But don't let a few facts get in the way of your rhetoric and point scoring.

But their voices are being listened to, the poor voted to leave the EU so we’re leaving.

It’s remainers who want to silence them.
But thankfully no ones listening to the rich elite who in reality, couldn’t give a fuck about the poor. It’s all about protecting your assets - as seen on this thread.

Surfer, this is a genuine question. Do you think Rees Mogg, Johnson and Farage are part of the elite, and if not, why not?

The people who care about the poor are the right wing of the Tory party......

If anyone has any doubts about the sanity of Brexit supporters just consider that.

Mistigri
Yes they are, unashamedly so in JRM’s & BJ’s case.

Moussemoose
The right wing of the Tory party didn’t vote for brexit, the ‘people’ did.
And as you well know, plenty in the Tory party want us to remain.

& yes 10degreestostarboard the more they post the more they reveal.

That is the basic truth of threads like this - well off remainers worried about their bank account

"Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that about 90% of income tax is paid by the 50% of taxpayers with the highest incomes, while more than a quarter is paid by the richest 1%"

The economic hardship coming to the UK (which you both say will happen) means lower tax take, as always, its the poor that takes the hit & if you think the middle classes will bail you out for your stupidity, think again.

Why are Leavers so afraid of another vote? They should win hands down surely, with an increased majority. Your poster boy Farage would back you 100%.

And if Parliament doesn't stop false advertising we could see the Remain camp take a leaf out of the Leavers book. So no more £350 Million a week goes to the EU, let's spend it on the NHS. Instead - "Brexit means your A & E may close. Do you want to travel 100 miles to the nearest hospital?"

The reasoning behind this is that EU nursing and midwifery applications have dropped by 90% and many EU staff already in post are leaving. An absolute number can be put on this, as can a number be put on how many people are needed to staff a major hospital so it could be expressed in terms of a number of closures. It's no more dishonest than the bus slogan.

Or we could stick to wholly truthful statements. Leave John Redwood advises people to invest in French and German stocks and not UK ones. Why? Where is his loyalty to and belief in UK prosperity.

Or how about 'Do you want to wait until your grandchildren are pensioners to see prosperity?' after Rees-Mogg's benefits in 50 years time statements.

{See dear lurker.
This is your average MN remainer.
Worrying about their wealth.}

Well it is not just mine. You see it is also anyone who has money currently in Pounds versus any other currency, be it Euros, Dollars or Yen. Mine is some savings and a pension that I have been paying into for 40 odd years, the same as many others.
Fortunately you will get your 'come uppance' when the UK actually leaves as everything you want to buy from outside the UK will get up to around 10% more expensive. That will be food, cars, fuel, everything. The only people who will benefit are the likes of JRM who has already taken his millions and put it into the Euro or elsewhere. Why would he do that if the Pound is going to do so well?
The answer to this is pretty similar to 'why do you buy a scratchcard or do the lottery? Only in his case he is 'betting' that the Pound will do badly so that he can bounce in with his Euro/Dollar savings and make a profit buying up companies that have gone bust.

the poor voted to leave the EU so we’re leaving

I'm not sure I believe this (willing to be proven wrong if somebody has stats) although the poor are most certainly getting the blame (funny that!) The older demographic are the most likely to have voted leave and pensioners are now the least likely group to be living in poverty www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11430359/Pensioners-are-now-richer-than-the-rest-and-we-should-celebrate-that.html , which isn't to say there aren't lots of poor pensioners. May wealthy retirees in the home counties voted Leave, why does nobody focus on them and ask what has been so bad about their lives? Instead we point the finger at poor northerners.

Unless you're a deeply paranoid person surferjet, you must know we all understand here that no one's assets are being protected anywhere when people are left behind, whether it's 'poor people in the North of the UK' or in other continents.
Only disaster capitalists think otherwise (and Rees-Mogg is telling us he is one of them, so we ought to listen). He has capital, he is moving it to the EU and trying to bring on a hard Brexit. Does that not tell you something?

All too little too late.
The remain campaign focused too much on money & you lost. They even admitted they got it wrong.

They should have campaigned with one slogan.

Beware the person who has nothing to lose

Well off Leavers e.g. Rees-Mogg, Redwood, are equally, if not more concerned about their bank accounts - to the extent of making sure that they have moved their money out of the UK.

How do you know that JRM has taken "his millions" and put them in the Euro? He opened a fund in Dublin for his investors to invest in - not his money. I'm sure where he puts his own personal money is not something that the public could possibly know.
Many people speculate on the FX markets short term or long term, with their own money if they are wealthy or just as part of their job, and if you are in that market, you will have been betting for the pound to go down irrespective of whether you are a leaver or a remainer. Nothing to do with personal preference in or out, everything to do with an ability to predict short term market reaction. Nothing to do with where you think the pound will end up in the longer term either.
I don't want to come across as in any way a fan of his but there are just so many wild statements on these threads that just don't help the debate at all.
And why is this becoming a debate about the rich/poor divide, given that as far as I know, the vote was fairly well distributed across all income levels?

Did anyone else spot this?

10degreestostarboard Thu 27-Sep-18 20:38:48
Oh jasjas

You really really don’t get it do you

For the moment the uk is still a sovereign nation state.

So he knows that all his whining about "taking our country back" is a complete load of horse shit!

And why is this becoming a debate about the rich/poor divide, given that as far as I know, the vote was fairly well distributed across all income levels?

Yes, very good question. 'Beware those that have nothing to lose' doesn't match reality.

No I don't know where Rees-Mogg puts his money. We do know about Redwood because he told us.

Yes, R-M opened a fund in Dublin and used the excuse it was for his investors. Why didn't he tell them to invest in the UK, since he believes that being out of the UK is the guarantee of prosperity?

Why will people who invest be betting for the pound to go down? We were supposed to see immediate opportunities, remember, the pound should have gone up.

No i think the pound was always expected to go down in the short term, and there will always be speculators making money out of that, from both sides of the debate. I bet George Soros, arch remainer, has made a packet out of it.

Leavers are usually more focused on the longer term benefits not the short term volatility. No-one thought this would be a smooth ride.
Asset managers have funds all over the world and so his probably needs the same purely to have a competitive product offering. It really isn't a statement of his view of anything at all. Investors with that much money have their own views of where/how they should invest and I doubt he's got much say in their decision making at all.

This is your average MN remainer.
Worrying about their wealth.

Worrying about their income and savings, yes... Like 99% of the population. Tell me, who isn't worrying about their livelihood?
I don't think there's going a socialist utopia any time soon so it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about our jobs and the value of whatever we have!

No-one thought this would be a smooth ride.

Rubbish.
Try these
Pay particular attention to the statements of Fox - still in a Cabinet Brexit post, and Davis, until recently in post. Pay particular attention to no. 6 about the Germans banging down the door to do a trade deal.

Tell us now that those self-same Brexiters are busily changing their tune and yes, I will agree with you.