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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2018 22:32

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colouringinpro · 18/09/2018 22:33

NHS and US SadSadSadSadSad

Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2018 22:34

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1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 23:03

Not read the article as iot's late. Are you suggesting that Scotland has 'mountain envy'?

prettybird · 18/09/2018 23:25

Mother is right - the irony is that Scotland wants to do it all properly, with due process and sufficient checks & balances Confused. And most of the Yes campaign wants a proper majority. I've heard Nicola say a minimum of 60:40 in favour of independence, because we don't want a divided, resentful nation. Compare and contrast Hmm

The SNP MPs starting to be obstructive in Parliament (à la Parnell's strategy last century) with repeated use of Humble Addresses and filibustering might irritate enough to force May or her replacement to allow a Section 30 notice.

Wouldn't mind a swap with Switzerland Grin - at least it would mean we could go skiing reliably (I've never skied outside in Scotland ShockBlush).

But it does remind me of the story shortened version follows about how God created this perfect country with beautiful countryside, beaches, mountains, whisky, fishing, farmland, pure water yada yada yada. When asked why He was being so generous to the Scots, God replied,"You should see the neighbours Hmm"

Present company excepted of course! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 23:26

Ta, mother

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 23:51

Keir Starmer clashed with Corbyn on Brexit 'to brink of resignation'

McDonnell, JC's bestie and main attack dog, probably planned the ambush

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/keir-starmer-clashed-corbyn-brexit-brink-of-resignation-customs-union

Shadow Brexit secretary said to have shown outrage at ‘ambush’ with customs union paper earlier this year
...
Several people present at the meeting told the Guardian the general feeling in the room was that Starmer was willing to resign rather than accept the proposals,
numbered copies of which were handed out at the start of the meeting and retrieved at the end.

< btw, Labour keep doing this numbered copy routine and collecting them back up - creepy somehow, at the least it shows a lack of comradely trust >

lonelyplanetmum · 19/09/2018 03:42

DD woke us up again so now I'm wide awake too. Just read this in the Spectator....
“As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. “

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 07:13

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woman11017 · 19/09/2018 07:15

Neigbour joke Grin prettybird
Does this work Mrs8
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

lonelyplanetmum · 19/09/2018 07:16

As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator.
Mumsnet, as Gordon Brown, Nick Clegg and countless others will remember, is about the toughest gig out there: you’re faced with a bombardment of questions ranging from traditional political analysis to deeply personal issues and of course humour, much of it biscuit-related. Striking the right tone is very, very hard.
These days, Mumsnet is even harder for politicians because an awful lot of users there are (quite reasonably) very angry with politicians over transgender issues. They feel (quite reasonably) that their worries and questions about the impact of “trans rights” laws and practices on the legal and social rights of women are being ignored by many people in power.

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 07:32

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woman11017 · 19/09/2018 07:36

lonelySays a lot about what they've done to our rights that MN is our main media source. It's also fun playing with their prejudices, and of course having a vote and still being allowed to post. Hmm

Signinficant that the 'pragmatic' (from BigChoc article) Mc Donnell was allowed out to talk with us. Smile

Peregrina · 19/09/2018 08:05

Trans rights and OK womens's rights being ignored by Labour, yes. Not much about how he ducked the Brexit questions though.

HermioneGoesBackHome · 19/09/2018 08:35

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/politics/theresa-may-suppressed-nine-reports-proving-immigration-has-little-effect-on-employment-or-wages/06/09/

In a blistering attack on Theresa May in her first PMQs before the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill starts being debated in parliament, the LibDem leader said that Theresa May had covered up NINE reports that proved immigration had little adverse effect on wage and employment levels.

Nothing new as such but what I find interesting is the fact that TM already had a ‘certain way’ to deal with facts. And it was to ignore them or ‘rework’ them so they fit her view of the world.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 08:42

Creative confusion ? (sneaking a deal through before the toddlers awake)

I am actually much more optimistic about a WA now,
after which a future govt might go for a much closer relationship with the EU than the current one wishes

The UK media - and govt / ERG ? - seem to think Barnier means tech checks on goods between NI and RoI,
whereas Barnier is referring to checks between NI and Britian
and NI harmonising to RoI / EU regulations etc

Barnier says:

"We are clarifying which goods arriving in northern Ireland from the rest of the UK would need to be checked and where, when and by whom these checks could be performed."

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-releaseSTATEMENT-18-58299_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/video/player.cfm?ref=I160239&sitelang=en&lg=EN

Sky wrongly state that he was talking about checks between NI & RoI:

https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-receives-brexit-boost-on-eve-of-crucial-eu-summit-in-salzburg-11501771

The BBC website was also wrong on this earlier, but has since corrected itself

Everyone repeating an original wrong / misleading source, instead of checking what Barnier said

  • and it's easy enough to check his speeches & press statements, because they are always on the EU site !

Is this just the grownups deliberately telling the Leavers they've won, while in reality accepting the EU's proposals ?

Despite the tough title, May seems to be turning, wanting frictionless access < how ? no FTA does this >
but stating that UK forms will NOT have full SM privileges
and also referring to
"the external customs border between different parts of the United Kingdom." - which seems deliberately confusing

https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article181579426/Theresa-May-May-warns-EU-not-to-treat-UK-unfairly-in-Brexit-talks.html

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 09:04

Apparently there's a mechanism for EU countries to recover maintenance payments from parents through the EU called REMO.

I wonder how many MNetters rely on it, given it'll disappear in a no-deal ?

So that'll be families with even less to live on.

(I only learned this via another thread ...)

HermioneGoesBackHome · 19/09/2018 09:09

I suspect the next weeks few weeks WILL be deliberately confusing.

It’s a great way to say yes to the EU conditions whilst looking like they actually say NO or are still holding to the ‘will of the peole’.

I think it has always been the Tories strategy, even more so with TM. Muddle the waters, say you do or want one thing whilst pursuing som else.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 09:15

Theresa-May-May-warns-EU-not-to-treat-UK-unfairly-in-Brexit-talks.html

Or what exactly ?

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 09:35

Can I ask a favour to people on thread Blush ?

Could you contact you local MP (doesn't matter what party) and ask a specific question related to disability/illness and brexit? Maybe throw in the meds stockpile and how that's inadequate?

Much appreciated if you have the time FlowersFlowers

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 09:41

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Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 09:42

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prettybird · 19/09/2018 09:48

What sort of question do you want us to ask Hazardswan? I'll contact my MP but health is devolved to Scotland (for the moment Angry) and as an SNP MP, is resolutely opposed to all things Brexit. (The LibDems are not the only party opposed to any form of Brext, whatever the BBC might say Wink)

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 09:52

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