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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

OP posts:
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SingingBabooshkaBadly · 19/09/2018 09:58

I will hazard though what I know of our new MP does not fill me with optimism...

Motheroffourdragons · 19/09/2018 10:01

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 10:05

Something like how do you plan to support disabled and/or sick people and carers during the turbulence of brexit? What are the 200 medications to be stockpiled and how effective is that plan?

To labour isn't dangerous it to vote no to a deal and relying on winning a GE?

I tried to copy and paste my question to bellend John but I'm on my phone.

Also wheelchair users what happens if a chair needs a spare part? That popped into my head the other day, people will be isolated in their homes if mobility aids need replacing or repairing and there's no imported parts. I know there's warehouses for them but things are made abroad. Then what if there's an issue with carers not turning up and then someone is truly fucked.

I have endless questions!

Will PM you Mrs the drugs are a give away Grin

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 10:22

Thank you! mrs, pretty, mother, singing Flowers

Literally any question related to brexit and people with a disability would be a start. It's like it's barely on the agenda, the radio silence concerns me most. At this point I'm desperate for even a generic response because at least that's acknowledgement. My bar is that low... Grin

Cockles of my heart have been warmed, thanks so much to any one who tries Brew

not getting misty eyed...No not me

Flowers
jasjas1973 · 19/09/2018 10:28

Did it a while ago, @Hazard, he Scott Mann, replied with the party line that all is good, we 'll get a deal and if we don't plans are in place.

Motheroffourdragons · 19/09/2018 10:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

13luckyblackcats · 19/09/2018 10:49

My (Labour) MP actually emailed round this morning asking for views on Brexit. He’s a Remainer (though apparently respects the referendum Hmm) so I have let him know exactly what I think, and asked about medication and carers. Should get a response, he’s pretty good.

I have managed to stockpile my own meds by weaning myself on to a half dose but am still furious. DD(5) has some specific medical needs that are sorted in the medium term, but could turn nasty if we can’t get a specific antibiotic in time and I fucking resent having to consider what lengths I’d go to to avoid that situation.

bellinisurge · 19/09/2018 11:08

It's vile that we are even having to think about this stuff.
Saying "trust mummy", when the metaphorical mummy hasn't really really got a great track record is terrible.

13luckyblackcats · 19/09/2018 11:18

@bellinisurge I just want to say a massive thank you for all your prepping posts, they are so helpful.

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hazardswan · 19/09/2018 11:33

For context for the "plans" - private companies have been told to stockpile 200 meds. There are 250 meds that help to treat M.E (ME btw can kill at the severe end of the spectrum, it's not 'yuppie flu'). That's one illness that's swamped the plans! No way in hell they have everyone covered.

lucky was just writing about antibiotics to someone else. We need the full range available, it isn't a case of any antibiotic will do as your bubba proves. Well done for your stockpile! Flowers

Thank you to everyone who has contacted or will be contacting their MP. It means the world. Flowers

jas I am pleased someone got a token response at least.

bellinisurge · 19/09/2018 11:37

You are welcome @13luckyblackcats

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 11:42

For context for the "plans" - private companies have been told to stockpile 200 meds. There are 250 meds that help to treat M.E (ME btw can kill at the severe end of the spectrum, it's not 'yuppie flu'). That's one illness that's swamped the plans! No way in hell they have everyone covered.

Not all medicines work for all people (that's why there are so many - DBs research in the US is looking at "why" ...)

But worse than that, is the fact that for chronic diseases, some medicines can just "stop working" (no one knows why yet). So consultants like to have a choice to prescribe from. (Or even worse, they can trigger severe allergic reactions out of nowhere ...)

Bad luck if your working medicine stops working, and there's no alternative available.

Mrsr8 · 19/09/2018 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 11:55

www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2018/09/it-s-brexit-not-people-s-vote-will-tear-country-apart

It’s Brexit, not a People’s Vote, that will tear the country apart

It is not as though we can have Brexit and the country will miraculously come back together.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 11:56

www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/19/no-deal-brexit-to-fuel-1500-rise-in-cost-of-eu-car-in-uk-says-motor-trade

The average cost of a car from an EU country could rise by £1,500 in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the UK’s automtive trade body has predicted.

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders warned that leaving without a deal was “not an option” for the automotive sector, which supports more than 800,000 jobs in the UK.

(contd)

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 19/09/2018 12:11

hazard I have written to my MP. He seems to be a good guy and is usually very responsive.

ShinyElena · 19/09/2018 12:16

hazard I will write to my MP as well.

DGRossetti · 19/09/2018 12:27

Anyone catch this

www.msn.com/fr-fr/actualite/monde/lultimatum-de-londres-%C3%A0-lue-%C2%ABnous-avons-%C3%A9t%C3%A9-tr%C3%A8s-pragmatiques-il-est-temps-de-voir-la-r%C3%A9ciproque%C2%BB/ar-BBNudNi

Seems if Labour called for a referendum, there'd be more weight behind it (noting time problems)

Pouvez-vous écarter la possibilité d’un nouveau référendum ?

Tout d’abord le gouvernement n’organisera pas de nouveau référendum. Deuxièmement, je n’entends nulle part, à part chez les libéraux-démocrates, mais certainement pas au sein de la direction du Labour, d’appel à un second vote. Et même si c’était ce que le peuple voulait, je ne vois pas comment cela serait possible de l’organiser dans le temps qui nous est imparti.

ShinyElena · 19/09/2018 12:35

There is no chance for that DGR according to The Guardian
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/19/labour-conference-path-mps-crucial-brexit-vote-jeremy-corbyn

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 12:37

hazard I've not written to mine for a while, this will be a nice excuse to. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 12:44

Nuclear medicine too, since there is a short half-life for isotopes

  • so storage is a real issue and the UK needs fresh supplies

We need to stay in EURATOM until the UK has reliable supply chains for nuclear medicine (and nuclear fuel for power statons)

Cancer sufferers can't shouldn't wait for treatment merely because the govt are too bloody ignorant about EURATOM and international laws for transporting nuclear isotopes

Tanith · 19/09/2018 12:46

I think people need a leader they can get behind - a central rallying point - if there is to be any protest that will make a difference.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2018 12:59

A leader with a plan, or a clear way to how the plan will be developed
Not just someone with charm and good soundbites

woman11017 · 19/09/2018 13:00

John Redwood being asked a specific question about waiting times in the ports before EU, and getting a bit tearful.
twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1042351997725364229

Yesterday on RTE with flailing Brigden asked about practicalities of hard border:
www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/tory-mp-andrew-brigden-interview-with-rte-audrey-carville-1-5700147

As James O'Brien has said, just ask them a specific question on eg how a taxi driver operates in ROI and NI border area, and they crumble.

Attrition of a permeable object? (I'm not a scientist Grin)