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Brexit

Westministenders: Conference Season

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2018 10:44

Party Conference Season has officially started. What happens could be utterly crucial for Brexit since Brexit isn't about the EU its about internal party divisions and the politics of personality.

Starting off in the Yellow Corner
The Lib Dems proposals for associate membership and a leader outside the HoC. We know that they support exit from Brexit but what is striking is the shake up of the party seems to be the only thing drawing attention and there is a distinct lack of talk of anything else - including Brexit. Yet there are hints of a tiny shift back to the LDs as Labour and the Conservatives implode despite the LDs having lost all direction. If they can find one then maybe they can throw spanners into the works further down the line.

Moving over to the Red Corner in Liverpool
The Labour Party strife and squabbling gets to be airred in full view in Liverpool; the ongoing anti-semitism row which seems to have no end in sight, the rising issues over women's rights, various Labour MPs being no confidenced in an attempt to deselect them and Brexit policy or more correctly lack of Brexit policy. Thornberry has stated that Labour will vote against any deal May puts forward seemingly in order to trigger another GE. This has been denied as being official policy, but she's a front bencher who hasn't been slapped down for disobedience by Corbyn. There are lots of rumours flying around about the party leadership being under pressure to change direction on Brexit so her comments might be push back against that. Word is that various trade unions and perhaps even Momentum are looking to push for another referendum and a much more pro-remain or explicit EEA policy.

And then there's the Blues...
Where to start with them??

Talk has changed from not whether there will be a leadership challenge to open and widespread discussion from moderate party loyals about when there will be one.

Its been said that a challenge isn't expected at conference nor straight after; the feeling is May will be left to sort out the withdrawal backstop agreement in October at least before being rudely dumped. But don't count on it. Especially in the party of backstabbers.

There's been lots of movement around Johnson too. Former close advisors say he's on self destruct but will still probably be PM. There's the break up of his marriage. There's the complete failure of his time in the foreign office where its hard to see what he actually did apart from upset people. There's his outrageous comments which seem in the style of Steve Bannon. There's talk of him suddenly apparently showing Brexit regret. For me there is one question, which seems very similar to Brexit itself: Boris Johnson has spent so much time and effort into the game of becoming PM, what thought has he given to what he actually does when he has achieved it? Its almost as if there is no plan for that...

Then theres the ERG, with their alternative Brexit White Paper which includes the magic Irish 'Not a Border but Looks Just Like a Border' Solution. Its supported by just about every Tory MP you'd put in a horror cabinet of heartless cold out of touch bastards, who would drive 20 miles out of their way rather than pass through a council estate. But even their stance seems to be softening; talk of aligning NI closely with EU - particularly with agrifoods seems to be moving away from a position compatible with a US trade deal.

And finally the original Tory Rebels, who like everyone else are firmly sticking their fingers up at May's Chequers Deal. Several have said they would support a People's Vote if May doesn't get her head out of her arse and admit the idea is a dead duck.

Look out for more 'non-Tory' style policy plans coming out over the next couple of weeks, like the talk of renationalising the railways.

So what does this mean for Brexit?
Well nothing and everything.

None of this changes the EU position. None of this changes the realities of the negogition process and the 29th March deadline.

It just is in some ways the final party show downs before decisions start HAVING to be made. Party fractures are going to be tested to their limits and the chances of it getting nasty, with the stakes being so high, are high.

I wouldn't like to call ANYTHING unless the conclusion of the conferences.

Its something we don't need as a country. Waiting for this lot to get their shit together has doomed the country.

The Recession is coming. It can not be stopped now. Regardless of what happens over Brexit. Its too late. We can only mitigate the scale of it.

This is the part just before the 2008 crash when people were saying what was about to happen, but everyone ignored. The accepted narrative now is that 'no one could have predicted the crash'. Except they could and they did. Its just that no one wanted to listen.

This is the part just before Iraq where thousands protested and were not listened to, because a politician had it in his head that it was the best option, but he had no real plan for what happened next.

This is the part when people said PFI was a spectactularly bad idea. But it kept being used over and over and over again by all political parties because it was politically easier in the short term.

Enjoy this Christmas.

Next year is going to be a rough old ride for a lot of people.

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Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 21:19

Say whaa? Isnt NEC pro corbyn?

Why would corbyn suddenly resign anyway, does he want to work on his allotment more?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 21:21

Rightwing US & UK Thinktanks unveil plan for US-UK Trade deal

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/politics/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal/ar-AAA3970

A radical blueprint for a free trade deal between the UK and the US that would see
the NHS opened to foreign competition, a bonfire of consumer and environmental regulations and freedom of movement between the two countries for workers,
is to be launched by prominent Brexiters.

The blueprint will be seen as significant because of the close links between the organisations behind it and the UK secretary for international trade, Liam Fox, and the US president, Donald Trump.
...
They say that it could become a model for future deals post-Brexit.

It would remove tariffs and throw out the precautionary principle that has guided much EU regulation on GM foods, chlorine-washed chicken, hormones in meat, pesticides and chemicals in cosmetics.

The same US thinktanks have been behind developing off-the-shelf policies favoured by big business that were adopted by the Trump administration when it took office.
Several policies and staff from the Heritage Foundation were taken into the Trump transition team.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2018 21:21

Crossover Day – when the Leave majority will disappear, even if not a single voter changes their mind about Brexit – will now be in January, according to a sensational YouGov poll.

Peter Kellner, the former president of the polling firm, said the Leave majority was now declining by 1,350 a day, due solely to demographic changes - older, mainly Leave, voters dying, while teenagers, who are mainly Remain, reach voting age.

He said he now expected Crossover Day to be January 19, plus or minus a few weeks.

It was supposed to be 2020. Why are leavers dying sooner than expected?

OP posts:
Peregrina · 18/09/2018 21:22

We found in Brittany that the one petrol pump we went to didn't take a Nationwide debit card, but did take Lloyds. Is that because Nationwide isn't a proper bank?

SwedishEdith · 18/09/2018 21:24

OK, we all know what most people think of Jeremy Hunt but fair play to him here in Japan.

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/foreign-secretary-jeremy-hunt-becomes-first-uk-minister-to-give-speech-in-japanese-a3939346.html

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 21:28

I've been avioding that UK and U.S. trade deal article all day. Apparently it has lots of public support....it's shite, poor quality food that makes you more prone to illness and a privatised healthcare that few will afford. Cracking combo that.

Peregrina · 18/09/2018 21:29

It was supposed to be 2020. Why are leavers dying sooner than expected?
It's only going to make a difference if the Tory party realise that they are going to lose a significant number of votes. They hope to avoid this by gerrymandering the Constituency boundaries. So we need a GE soon, one which is totally inconclusive before the new boundaries kick in, with no party being sufficient to Govern, and that might just knock a little bit of sense into some of our Politicians. I hope it also finishes off May, Johnson, Gove, Rees-Mogg and a few other horrors into the bargain.

Is there a pigs might fly emoticon somewhere?

woman11017 · 18/09/2018 21:30

Flowers red and all great post. at 21.18
Isnt NEC pro corbyn
Even they realise they need to win an election, getting their ducks in a row, maybe?

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 21:30

why are leavers dying sooner...

Because the NHS is up shit creek without a paddle. Epic staff shortages and I believe, but this is only rumour, an email was sent out suggesting not to go to extreme measures on the elderly and frail.

SwedishEdith · 18/09/2018 21:32

Oh, we've had problems with Nationwide cards as well. Maybe?

Tomorrow's Guardian. I posted this before but I remember reading in Tim Shipman's All Out War that Javid only wanted FOM for wealthier citizens. So fuck you if you were born poor and are uneducated. Stay where you are.

Westministenders: Conference Season
woman11017 · 18/09/2018 21:40

^poor quality food that makes you more prone to illness
I'm avoiding that one too Hazardswan I saw something about policy of monitoring pregnant women's weight again for the health of the baby and mother. Fine, but.......... Not considering that a healthy diet costs more, fruit and veg is heavy and expensive, and cheap food is fattening.

Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 21:42

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Mrsr8 · 18/09/2018 21:43

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1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 21:44

Is that Tomfoolery and gerrymandering by any chance?

Quietrebel · 18/09/2018 21:45

Oh yes, and we fine ladies will again drink vinegar to make us look sickly and oh so fragile... and of course we won't be voting! Perish the thought!

Mistigri · 18/09/2018 21:48

Yes, many petrol pumps take cards only. Handy as they are open 24 Hours. Those at supermarkets for example are often 'personed' during usual 'shop' hours.

If we are talking about France here, increasingly even supermarket pumps are unmanned including in shop hours.

That said I think it's highly unlikely that UK issued chip and pin credit cards won't work in the EU after Brexit.

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 21:51

You have to talk nicely to petrol pumps, they have feelings too.
One thing to watch is that there are various shops, even supermarkets in Holland that don't take Visa or Mastercard. I think these take Electron? and something else though. France normally accepts anything that looks or smells like money.

prettybird · 18/09/2018 21:51

My very major concern about a trade deal with the US selling off the NHS, is that NHS Scotland is ( and always has been_Hmm) a separate organisation to "the" NHS England (it's only recently starting calling itself that - and the BBC usually forgets Hmm). and iirc, health was one of the areas that Westminster has "taken back" Angry

And the detail of the trade talks are to be kept secret even from Scotland (iirc for 10 or 15 years Shock) so that the disgraced Werrity sniffer Fox can sell off Scotland's family silver and can't isn't allowed even to know about it. And even if it did, and it said No, according to the Government, in good rapist tradition, "No means yes - and even silence means yes" Angry

And I'm not reassured by the hope of independence, as I can see the disgraced werrity sniffer Fox signing something abominable with indecent literally haste just to prove his dogma and out of spite And then when an independent Scotland tries to unprivatise its own NHS Hmm, the American corporations will sue the Scottish government for "lost profits" - current and future Angry

And breeeeeaaaaathe Wink

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 22:04

Maybe on one occasion repeal the fox hunting laws?

1tisILeClerc · 18/09/2018 22:06

There must be a 'Bylaw' that permits this on the 26th of whenever at 10:30 in the morning or something obscure? How about an accident when testing an English longbow or something?

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 22:10

I was bloody avioding that one to woman, on the news earlier they made women sound like cattle.

Speaking of cattle

Now a new study, years in the making, goes further than any other to demonstrate that resistant bacteria can move from animals to humans via the meat they become. It also provides a model of how new surveillance systems might reduce that bacterial flow at its source on farms.

This is a problem for the EU meat already but the problem applies even more to American meat due to the extra large industrialization.

www.wired.com/story/farm-antibiotics-human-illness-hidden-link/amp

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 22:14

pretty can't Scotland call an Indy ref before Westminster fucks everything up? Even if its not official, go a bit rogue like they did in Catalonia?

Motheroffourdragons · 18/09/2018 22:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Hazardswan · 18/09/2018 22:25

But all bets are off surely, WM has gone mad...

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2018 22:28

Perfect (German) solution: Scotland and Switzerland to swap places due to Brexit  

< awaits comments with interest from mother, pretty  >

https://www.the-postillon.com/2017/02/scotland-switzerland.html