'People's Vote' - is it pie in the sky? Is there simply not enough time left?

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

I think there is increasing momentum behind the idea of a 'People's Vote', as a second referendum on the 'Final Deal'.
But reading this Jack of Kent blogpost from December last year, he thought we were running out of time then, let alone ten months later.
jackofkent.com/2017/12/there-will-soon-not-be-enough-time-for-a-further-referendum-before-29-march-2019/

Essentially, we can't vote on the Final Deal until we know what it is, we need new (and better) legislation, we need time for a campaign and we need a procedure to revoke A50. And that's even if the idea of a second referendum was supported by the government or the opposition.
So (as much as I would LOVE Brexit to be reversed as it's the Worst Idea Ever) I think this People's Vote campaign is a distraction and false hope.

Can anyone with more knowledge tell me different? Please? Pretty Please?

Looks like labour will offer the people’s vote

I’d vote for them definitely if there was a GE

I’d vote labour if there was a ge and they promised a second referendum. Even with Corbyn in charge.

I wonder if this is just another carrot and stick again, the same as the students and student debt last time?

I think it is a good thing that labour are saying they will support a second referendum. We need some polarisation, rather than vague mumbles from both parties.

I really hope there is another GE.

@time4chocolate Labour are still committed to scrapping tuition fees and reviewing existing student debt. There's nothing carrot and stick about it, but it's only a change that can be made once they are in power.

The Party will commit to a People's Vote if that's what members want. Hence why it is being voted on at conference before a final decision is made.

I really hope Labour manage to sort out their position. They’ll still have a problem in Scotland, though - will sufficient voters abandon the SNP? Although I suppose Scotland has never influenced a vote so if there are sufficient English Labour votes it won’t matter.

Anyway - I don’t think a People’s Vote is undemocratic. It is asking the electorate what they want. However, it’s got to be on final, clear options, ie, No Deal v Remain v Chequers - and Chequers can’t be on the ballot paper if there is zero chance of it actually happening, which seems likely.

How is there time for any of this though? I will march on 20th Oct but so many buts

There isn't time. It's just a distraction. Just who is going to lead it?

Especially after May's hissy fit speech last week - reduced the chances of her doing a 180 and asking for the EU to extend A50 (and also reduced the chances of them letting us just forget about the whole thing without losing some of our existing opt-outs).

Yes, it's lifted my spirit a bit but look at what McDonnell is saying this morning: no way to remain. Only wants a choice between May's deal or no deal (2 Tory options)...

I'm reminded of the best summary of Brexit I saw on twitter months ago - Luxembourg PM perhaps?

'The UK were in [the EU] with a lot of opt-outs; now they want Out with a lot of opt-ins.'

And now we're screwing our chances of either.

McDonnell doesn't really get it does he.

I will march on 20th October too, having been on all the marches so far. Will it make any difference? It's unlikely but at least I will know I did what I could to stop it. What else can be done though?

Peregrina I'm going with 'screaming pointlessly into the void'.

It seems like this whole process has been for a long time not about what the citizens of the UK want & need but more about the political & financial interests of the people currently in control.

It may well all turn out to be not that bad, but the fact it is all completely unnecessary is what really winds me up. What else should our civil servants have been doing whilst they've had to waste all this time, effort and money on preparing for Brexit?

I really hope there is another GE.

That Labour are on track to lose (remember if they are at level pegging with the Tories in polls they lose on seat numbers. Labour votes are more concentrated).

Polling suggests that Corbyn remains very unpopular, most people prefer "don't know" as PM, followed by May, with Corbyn a distant third.

There is a good chance that another GE makes things worse.

Yes, but Labour were on track to lose last time, which quite frankly was why May called the election - the opportunity to put the boot into them was just too tempting for her. The electorate didn't co-operate. Would she make the same mistake again?

I think that any GE would be fought on Brexit and from what I can see I can't see how anyone can think that JC could negotiate any better. Len McCuskey stated that he felt that any second referendum would have to be on the deal on the table at the time and should not have an alternative to remain in the EU.

So if people say they don't like the deal on the table, what is the alternative. May's deal or crash out?

Yes, It's a deal or no deal situation. So it's a waste of time.

I suppose from a Leaver point of view then having Remain on a ballot paper with the other 2 options of deal/no deal risks splitting the Leave vote and having Remain win by default. Personally, I would be right behind that! I assume that's what McDonnell is getting at when he says a People's Vote couldn't have Remain on the ballot paper. However, no reason why there can't be Question 1: Do you want to Remain or Leave? followed by Question 2: If we Leave, do you want a) finalised deal with details previously announced and well-publicised or b) No deal?

Can't see how that would work TooExtra. Think the electoral commission wouldn't buy that. Has to be very precise.

It can only be a two option, one choice referendum. So any of us Remainers hoping to get another bite of the cherry are wasting their energy.
It will be vote for a deal we never wanted or vote for no deal which would be the worst of all possible worlds.

Labour seem to have got them selves in a right twist with some saying one thing and others saying another re a second referendum. Don't know what they want do they!!!

Since Labour aren't in power, it doesn't matter quite so much that they don't know what they want. The Tories however, are in Government, are responsible for Brexit, so it's high time they got themselves sorted out.

Their problem of course is, that they don't need to, because the ones in Government are all wealthy and will be alright, whatever happens, and will probably gain.

How on earth did we end up with such a shower of shit at the top of the political tree.

Who was it said that 'every country gets the government it deserves'?

What the hell did we do to deserve this. Is it the karma from our empire-building era finally returning to kick us in the arse...