'People's Vote' - is it pie in the sky? Is there simply not enough time left?

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

I think there is increasing momentum behind the idea of a 'People's Vote', as a second referendum on the 'Final Deal'.
But reading this Jack of Kent blogpost from December last year, he thought we were running out of time then, let alone ten months later.
jackofkent.com/2017/12/there-will-soon-not-be-enough-time-for-a-further-referendum-before-29-march-2019/

Essentially, we can't vote on the Final Deal until we know what it is, we need new (and better) legislation, we need time for a campaign and we need a procedure to revoke A50. And that's even if the idea of a second referendum was supported by the government or the opposition.
So (as much as I would LOVE Brexit to be reversed as it's the Worst Idea Ever) I think this People's Vote campaign is a distraction and false hope.

Can anyone with more knowledge tell me different? Please? Pretty Please?

The Scottish Lord Kerr, who wrote Article 50, has stated repeatedly that it can be reversed. [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/brexit-date-is-not-irreversible-says-man-who-wrote-article-50-lord-kerr This from last year...]]

Try that again.

Ok thank you LeClerc & Hirples. So it could be reversed, might not even need a referendum to do it, in theory.
But if we do want a referendum we need to agree a theoretical deal, extend A50 and put in place all legislation to support it. Do Peoples Vote have a plan for that I wonder?
TBH I think it’s a moo point anyway. We’ll either go out with a bang or a whimper.
I’m so pissed off.

All Theresa has to do is go to the EU and say "Sorry, people, didn't think that through" and the whole nightmare goes away. It really is that simple, right up to March.
I'm in two minds about the second EU referendum, I won't be campaigning for it but I'll vote Remain again if it happens and that's an option. I won't vote if it's between a deal and no deal.

SacreBleu if by some chance we were allowed to reverse the notification do you think the EU27 will let us back on previous terms, or will it be Schengen, Euro, no special conditions for us anymore?

Assuming it is legally possible to simply unilaterally withdraw A50 (and AFAIK this hasn't been finally settled), then it wouldn't be a question of "letting us back in", because we would not have left. I don't think the UK's terms would change.

I've always been a second referendum sceptic. Don't think it will happen. Not sure it is a good idea anyway.

Sorry Hirples
The article hadn't specified he was Scottish. The relevance was that he was from the UK, which I should have said.
As Mistigri said we haven't actually left yet so the conditions remain, although obviously the EU will be mightily pissed off at the waste of time and money they have been forced to spend by the UK government.
A strong showing for remain, or as close as possible would be a clear indication to many of our friends in Europe that we too are being dragged into this unnecessary mess. The 'day to day' crap that the Gov are coming up with is probably not reported widely in Europe, as many will have lost interest, but events like the remain and second vote marches will be published.

Referenda do not have to be simply yes or no. You could have choices, you could order in preference.

A negotiated deal.
No deal
Remain

You vote in order of preference. If one wins clearly the result is simple. If no clear majority is gained then the second preference votes are redistributed. It gets a bit complicated here as there are different ways of doing this but it is all fair and legal and used in many different countries.

I think the New Zealanders had a number of choices when they voted on whether to change their flag a few years back. Design 1, design 2, stick with the current one. They stuck with the current one which I thought was a pity, because I liked some of the other designs.

1tis I'm only aware Lord Kerr is a Scot because I saw someone make exactly the same error the other week, and the info stayed with me. :)

And yes, if Theresa withdraws her Art 50 letter, we stay on the same conditions we have now, with all of our lovely opt outs still in place. We can even have blue passports.

What happens if we stay? Riots in the streets from angry Brexiters? Meh, who cares, there will be riots anyway when grannies start dying of the cold, and kids from curable cancers, and there's nothing to eat bar chlorinated chicken. Theresa might well lose her job and the Tories lose power but if ever there was a time to put country before party, this is it.

Riots in the streets from angry Brexiters?

I recall that Farage was going to organise a demo, which in the end mustered about 20 people and a dog. Meanwhile, Remain have had at least two demos of 100,000 strong. So quite honestly, I doubt whether the angry Brexiters will be rioting about Brexit not happening. I could well envisage them rioting about food shortages.

@Hirples
Trying to be 'correct' in posts on here without filling in the full life story on every post is difficult.
There is plenty of scope for rioting. While there may be some 'leavers' who may be that way inclined, I would suspect that many will have looked at the ongoing 'balls up' and little traces of doubt will have crossed their minds, if not a full reevaluation of what leaving will really mean.
If/when we do actually leave then it is likely to be remainers as they will be seriously aggrieved at having a (on the whole) comfortable lifetime destroyed for no tangible gain.
A look at SKY news website has Mr Junker's state of the EU speech.
Part of it addresses some of the more pressing problems, migration, but also repeats that the SM is binary, either in or out and no compromise. This was reported to have received a large approval by the MEPs present. This in itself should be a flag that things are getting truly serious.
Most of the other things he said I am very happy with personally and hope that I can be part of it.
The speech by a German MEP was interesting saying he wanted to see free good quality childcare, schooling and housing across the EU.
Maybe a bit of 'grandstanding' if that is the expression but to have that as an aim is a very good start. Shame the UK may well not be part of that.

We are leaving so it would have been a demonstration/protest about what exactly? That’s just a pointless waste of time and I certainly would have had better things to do.

Now, if we don’t leave and the whole thing is called of then thats a completely different kettle of fish.

off

there won't be a vote. There is nothing to vote on, and no way of acting on the outcome of a vote anyway.

we are not going to leave, it isn't possible, it would destroy us totally. We couldn't even have international flights take off or land in the UK!

we are going to get a deal in which we pretend to leave, whilst really remaining subject to EU courts and laws, and part of the community in every way

we will lose power, and clout and influence, but will survive.

There can't be a vote on this, because there are no alternatives to choose between.

Elaborate a bit more time4chocolate. You don't want a Referendum to confirm that May's deal is acceptable, but if she/her successor call Brexit off, you do want another Referendum? Is that what you are saying?

If any prime minister halted the Brexit process now they'd have to run away to somewhere a lot more remote than a shepherd's hut in the Cotswolds to escape the furore.
Hopefully it would all blow over in a couple of years though and we'd just have to grow in to our new international reputation of being a land of complete incompetents! Although I think we're saddled with that already.

I'd almost want to withdraw A50 for devilment to see if Leavers can "just get over it in the national interest ". Or whatever other crap they say to those who voted Remain.

Don't see how it can get much worse for May. I'd think more of her if she had the guts to withdraw Article 50 and just take the flack. History would judge her more kindly and her own party have turned against her now anyway.

Peregrina - I don’t want another referendum on anything ever again thanks.

I answered your question about why no one turned up to Farage’s demo.

If we didn’t leave then I would be demonstrating about the whole pointlessness of having the ref, the division sowed the pissing about for two years at great expense all for nothing.

For what it’s worth I think the only two options on a new referendum would be TMs deal or ERG (if they can manage to pull one together) the remain question has been asked and answered. You now vote on the plans and you pick what you think is going the better option (TM with no clout or say but we still pay, or you go for the ERG option) I think the result would be interesting.

As Mrs May is supposedly 'in charge', why has she not said to the kids in the corner, OK show me your homework so we can check your calculations?
Even in as school maths exam you have to show your workings.
If the ERG submitted their plan, it wouldn't take more than a morning on google to pull it to pieces if you view their plan as being beneficial to the UK as a whole rather than some weird, unpleasant money grab.

As I lie awake at night I know there won't be a deal or a vote. We will crash out, have to accept WTO rules, it will trigger chaos, the economy will tank, Jaguar Land Rover and the other multi nationals will abandon ship, unemployment will go through the roof, prices of goods and food will rocket.

But we will have taken back control and have blue passports, so it will be ok.

Sorry to be so negative, I'm having a bad morning and getting to the point where I can't see any way out - this affects my life massively.

TM is busily/hastily/desperately (chose your option) trying to get her deal agreed before she is ousted so no time for checking homework.

The ERG are too busy working on their Coup d’etat that their plan relating to the single biggest event in the U.K. for many many years is very much secondary on the agenda.

All of the above should mean Labour wiping the floor with the Tories but they are too busy buying greetings cards for each other.

If someone handed Theresa a new blank bit of paper but with a line down the middle. She could put what the EU want/ or offers on one side, and what the people of the UK NEED on the other, ignoring the crap that was on red buses etc.
She might find that about 3/4 of the items appear on both sides.