'People's Vote' - is it pie in the sky? Is there simply not enough time left?

[Ihaventgottimeforthis]

I think there is increasing momentum behind the idea of a 'People's Vote', as a second referendum on the 'Final Deal'.
But reading this Jack of Kent blogpost from December last year, he thought we were running out of time then, let alone ten months later.
jackofkent.com/2017/12/there-will-soon-not-be-enough-time-for-a-further-referendum-before-29-march-2019/

Essentially, we can't vote on the Final Deal until we know what it is, we need new (and better) legislation, we need time for a campaign and we need a procedure to revoke A50. And that's even if the idea of a second referendum was supported by the government or the opposition.
So (as much as I would LOVE Brexit to be reversed as it's the Worst Idea Ever) I think this People's Vote campaign is a distraction and false hope.

Can anyone with more knowledge tell me different? Please? Pretty Please?

I didn't ask why Farage's demo was a flop, just made a statement that it was. What exactly would be the point of demonstrating about two wasted years? I do agree that Labour ought to be wiping the floor with the Tories, but they are almost as hopelessly split. They should at least be capitalising on the public affection for the NHS, knowing that they were the architects of it. It's definitely the Tories Achilles heal - hence the stealth with which they are privatising it, the public wouldn't buy it if it were to be put in a Manifesto.

That is interesting because I disagree entirely.

Well there’s a surprise!!

I don't understand why leavers are so afraid to revisit the question.

It’s not about being afraid it’s about the principle

Can you really not see what the problem with that is? You don’t revisit the question in a referendum, the question has been answered. You have somehow justified in in your heads that it’s the right thing to do so that you can have another bash and hopefully get a different outcome - it’s embarrassing tbh.

I don’t want another ref, I am happy with the result and I expect my vote to have meaning and be counted. Not to be told by some twits that I need to have another go at it.

That’s my view and I’m out now because it’s going to go circular like all the other threads and it’s tedious.

I don't understand why leavers are so afraid to revisit the question

Apologies this ^^ is the sentence that should be bold not the one below it.

I voted Remain. I don't want another vote. Either we withdraw A50 letter until such time as we can do it more sensibly or we leave over a cliff. I hope people suffer the consequences of their stupidity to vote Leave.
I have Irish Citizenship. As has dh. Dd is getting it. I am alright, Jack.
Never used to think like this. Do now.

As has been said many times, saying 'leave' is one thing but QUANTIFYING leave is another.
By voting leave did you really want job losses, economic mayhem, CUTS to NHS and all the rest that is already coming to fruition?
If you really just wanted a reduction in immigration and a blue passport, maybe this should have been addressed rather than wholesale destruction of the UK. Even those 'bigging it up' at the time of the original vote say it can't happen, or at least have not presented a viable plan.

Mother am really not afraid at all, as I said earlier it’s the principle and it’s not the way to go. If the government want to revoke A50 then that’s different.

Peregrina What exactly would be the point of demonstrating about two wasted years?
why not? isnt wasting money and creating division and all for nothing not a valid enough reason to warrant a demonstration for you? remain demonstrations are ok though and not at all pointless?

Remain demonstrations are telling the Govt that no, by no means all the population want their version of Brexit.

Two years time and money wasted are sunk costs - they are gone, and no amount of demonstrations will bring them back. A trivial example, but if you buy an expensive dress which was a mistake, putting it in the wardrobe won't make the money you spent on in come flying out at you.

Remain demonstrations are telling the Govt that no, by no means all the population want their version of Brexit.

No, remain demonstrations are telling the government that they don’t want brexit full stop IMO.

Sadly the real problems are far worse than the apparent 'froth' we have at the moment.
Business confidence has been 'stuffed' and that is the only real mechanism for the UK to keep afloat financially. Shutting the borders totally, we would starve as we HAVE to import food, so in turn we have to make or do something.
Business plans for the likes of Airbus, JLR, Nissan and the London money markets are absolute minimum 5 years and may be 10 or 15. When the 'No Disclosure' bans are lifted in the future it will be interesting to see what 'deals' might have been suggested. Unfortunately it will probably be too late and just be an academic 'how not to leave a trading bloc' exercise.
Government 'cosy chats' with Nissan and the others cannot have promised 'deals' (bribes) as they would be against WTO and EU rules.

@time4chocolate

I understand you don't want a rerun of the 2016 vote (neither do i, for the reasons you ve given) but what if the deal TM came back with meant the UK car industry moving to the mainland and the loss of 10s of 1000s of jobs, such as the ceo of JLR suggested yesterday.

Would you want a vote on that deal or would you be happy that we are leaving the EU and if the price is the car industry and some finance, its a price worth paying?

Is that what you voted for in '16?

According to Patrick Minford, the only economist who wrote Economists for Free Trade paper that the ERG presented yesterday, both the UK farming sector and UK manufacturing are acceptable collateral for the sunlit uplands of a WTO utopia outside of the EU

I'd think more of her if she had the guts to withdraw Article 50 and just take the flack. History would judge her more kindly and her own party have turned against her now anyway.

I agree. No way will she do it though.

I don't really want another referendum either; it'd just cause more discord and any result wouldn't be taken seriously.

I don't see a way out that isn't bad. Best-case scenario IMO is they find a way to keep kicking all the cans down the road ad infinitum, companies and people keep leaving the UK because of the uncertainty and the bad feeling, and things will just get slowly worse and worse. Like boiling frogs.

What sunlit uplands? Are those the ones that JRM says we will discover in fifty years time?

A bit more clarity here from Peoples Vote on how it might actually work:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45566204?ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_politics&ns_linkname=news_central

I still don't think it will happen though, and I'm fairly unsure about whether I would support one. I'd much rather the government just abandon the process due to the overwhelming weight of evidence that it is a fucking stupid idea.

I don’t really want a referendum either, but I will march for one as it’s the best thing next to withdrawing A50 and keeps up the noise.

Time I do understand your point about not having a re-run, but what objection do you have to checking what kind of Brexit “the people” want, and whether they have changed their minds altogether about leaving? How is that undemocratic?

Parliament should make the decision about which Brexit or to abandon Brexit but politically I don't think that's possible. Too many people have absolutely no understanding of how our constitution works and wouldn't get how the decision is ultimately parliament's.

Politically we need to have a referendum to move forward either way.

Based on the Salzburg meeting and TM’s press statements this afternoon, it looks like a no deal is looking more likely than ever.

Agree, they have mightily fucked it up.

The shock of the EU actually being tough in negotiations, we can't handle it and now we've run out of time.

No Deal, May quits and disappears to Snowdonia, GE, we end up with a coalition gov and four more years of austerity and arguing.

Bloody great.

Possible general election in November and labour indicating they’d now consider a second referendum according to today’s papers.

How exactly would they force a General Election? And, are they ready for it? They are costly both in time and effort.

I think that an early election has merit in that it will be on the old boundaries. The new ones appear to be gerrymandered to give the Tories a majority.

Papers are saying that May might call a GE, not that labour will force one. That she is realising it’s going to be a no deal Brexit so will say this is what’s happening, let’s have an election. Choice of voting Tory with a no deal Brexit or labour with god knows what.

So if Tory win the election and no deal Brexit happens she can say well this is what the people wanted regardless of how shit the outcome is. If Tories lose the election she does a David Cameron and buggers off.

May tried that last time and it didn't work in her favour. It might this time, who knows?

We keep hearing "They won't allow us to crash out because...." and the next thing is, they allow exactly whatever wasn't going to be allowed to happen."

This is an interesting development

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-45616308