The Brexit Arms. The home of friendly chat & laughter.

[surferjet]

Only 1 rule.
No c&p posts a mile long, they’re just boring & no one reads them.
Keep it short, sweet, & to the point.

Peace & Love ❤️🇬🇧❤️

(Also, it's a bit rich for Crabby to call anyone a troll!)

A quick re read of my post and I see I suggested 10 years of preparation. That seems reasonable to me.
The second scenario where Mr Cameron reviews what the people were really voting for (since the ref ballot papers were a bit thin on detail) he should have known already since he was supposed to be in charge of the country.
I am quite NORMAL in that I can think about situations and possible solutions, perhaps a little less LIGHTHEARTED than I should be because my goods to allow me to complete today's job haven't arrived, it isn't as sunny as it could be and no decent tunes on.
Happy now?

If Brexiteers had been remotely honest and said - this is not a quick fix nor is it the only fix for our national problems. If they had said that many people are going to suffer as we adjust and it's going to take a long time. If we'd heard any of that, I would have had more respect for that decision.
Instead, it was sold as a quick fix and the root of all our problems. That was a lie. Hard to respect people who still peddle this nonsense.

1tis

The ‘what is Brexit anyway’ narrative has been successfully introduced by the remain side to muddy waters

Leave means exactly that. Leave all eu institutions, revert to wto and negotiate a trade deal like we would with any other global organisation

If that’s not clear I don’t know what is!

If that is remainer myth 1, remainer myth 2 is the ‘people don’t know what they vote for/ the result might have been different on a different day’

Infantile logic. Unless you advocate runninggeneral elections daily on the grounds folks might have changed their minds since the last vote 24 hrs prior...

Which part of 'we won get over it' actually defines what 'it' is?

See my post At 1620....

What wasn't made clear to voters was how difficult it would be.
Personally, I don't give a shit. Brexit has given me licence not to care about anyone else apart from my family.
No muddy waters here. Lots of lies over there in Brexitland.

If you revert to WTO, haven't you just given up sovereignty to a massive global institution in exchange for having some rules to underpin your trade agreements?

Nope

Because wto isn’t explicitly seeking ‘ever closer political union’

Wto doesn’t want to control our law courts, run an army...

Should we pull out of NATO too? And maybe ignore WTO legal rules being imposed on us?
You need to get some perspective here.

I feel a song by Neil Innes coming on.

I think you need to do a bit more homework

Neither nato nor the wto seek to hold sovereignty over their member states. Neither seek ‘ever greater union’. Neither have the power to impose, say, freedom of movement. Neither can dictate laws higher than our own. Neither hold an effective veto over member actions.

Is Ireland, a neutral country going to join this mythical army?

Who knows, who cares. Do you have a point?

My point is that who is going to force Ireland not to be a neutral country and who would have forced the UK to contribute to an army if it didn't want to?

Don’t dissemble when you are losing the argument - you were the one who made the ridiculous comparison between the eu and nato. The two things are utterly different and the eu bears more resemblance to the USA as a construct of a federation of states

What on earth are you talking about?

Who am I debating with here? Are you 15 or something? Do you know what you are talking about?

Are you old enough to be in this pub???

The EU doesn't control our law courts, they set out a regulatory frame work (which we, as a member, help create) and as a sovereign nation we work out how it applies within our national law systems.

We control our courts. Always have.

NEXT.

(This is fun. Are we being lighthearted again?)

State's rights are very important in the US, btw. (Fun fact for anyone following along in the audience.)

@10degreestostarboard - kudos for trying to patronise an old person. You have listed our impending absorption into a Euroarmy. I have asked how a member state that is a neutral country, that is, Ireland, would be absorbed into this army. If they don't, we don't have to.
You have listed WTO as having less say over how we trade. I have said this is wrong and that WTO rules are ones we have to follow and have even less say in creating.
You have explained that someone else makes our laws. This is false.
But hey, you're having a lovely time.

Bellinsurge

The eu has a common security and defence policy.... does the wto have one of those?

What about eu countries that didn’t have our say in setting up the eu. Where is their ability to set the agenda? Don’t they matter because they aren’t France or Germany? How is Greece faring?

The eu seeks powers over member states incomparable with other supranational institutions.

Long words I know - keep up

@10degreestostarboard - you have such a clever way of explaining your ideas. Who said Brexiteers were intellectually challenged parrots?

'What brexit actually is' has been deliberately kept vague to appeal to a wide range of populist ideas. Malcolm Cummins designed his referendum campaign around this broad church as pinning it down would invite closer scrutiny and it would likely unravel the inconsistencies and contradictions.
A fair chunk (maybe about 6m of the 17.4m) probably had sinister motives about immigration. The likes of BNP, National Action and some UKIPPERS were joined by many who had previously suppressed their non-politically correct views. Some just heard 'the flood gates are opened' becoming a 'Muslim state', and endless scare stories (many just made up) about the refugee crisis, Turkey joining, an EU army and associated these with stories of rape, pressure on public services, taking our jobs etc. .....their deep-seated and unpalatable views had an outlet.
But the global Britain type of brexit would invite probably less skilled cheaper workers to the UK from countries like India and China, immigration could well rise and lower paid UK workers would lose out especially as they lose EU employment rights ....but don't tell these 6m brexiteers that FFS!!
Then you have the ERG type brexiteer who also can't agree what brexit looks like even amongst themselves so withdrew their paper they were due to publish. They are led by a small group of ultra rich types who just want to protect their offshore tax havens from the EU clampdown, especially offshore investment trusts. They are small in number but are the money behind the ultra white wing press and have been quoted saying they find the use of food banks 'uplifting'. They couldn't give a monkey's about workers rights or job losses or even immigration and will likely clean up by shorting sterling or stocks that will collapse if they are hit with 20%tariffs "f@ck business" but oppose Chequers as it does not leave them free enough to impose real misery on the masses which they can exploit.
Then there are those who believed the lies on the big red bus and the BS about democracy or sovereignty and the 'sunlit uplands' who thought we could have our cake and eat it (ignoring the 38b divorce bill and a civil war in NI)...but these people often despise the tax dodgers elites brexiteers,..
So brexiteers are very opposed to each other but all types of brexit make us poorer (in pay, jobs, health, education, opportunity, etc) it's just which sh!t sandwich they choose to hit us with....but there is one common denominator in that many are still cheering on their victory in June 2016 oblivious to the fact that the different versions maybe so damaging to them personally, these are the fundamentalist brexiteers although their numbers are declining as people realise they have been DUPed and demand a peoples vote