Would remain is accept another vote if it had gone the other way

[Childrenofthestones]

Just a quick question to remainers.

Would you still be clamoring for another vote had you won and it had gone your way with the same sort of margin.

If brexiteers were asking for another vote would you agree to it.

No lying now....honest answers please

I'd like to know which "experts" have been coming out in favour of leave.

At this point in time it is all quess work how it will all turn out, experts contradicting each other on both sides, depends who you believe

Well as a lawyer who understands the impact that entering into and terminating a contract can have, I choose to believe those pesky "experts" who are telling us what the legal consequences of leaving without a deal will be in a whole range of sectors (not least because I am capable of checking what they have said and assessing for myself whether I think it is true), rather than the politicians and armchair experts clearly lying through their teeth confidently predicting that everything will be fiiiiine.

Because I am a stickler for detail.

Sorry about that.

Peregrina I wouldn’t know if it was not fit for purpose because at this stage I’m not in possession of the item, after I’ve had it for a while, I could then make a judgment call, but I can’t untill I have it
Any government would be taking steps, dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t

But Rosstac, in this case the item in question is a tattoo. And where you are now is sitting in the tattoo parlour, looking at the tattoo artist, who looks like he's been drinking and taking drugs, and is enthusiastically doodling something on the paper which looks nothing like what you imagined, and for some inexplicable reason you're saying, "No one knows what it will be like" instead of doing the sensible thing and getting the fuck out of there.

But once you've got a tattoo that says "I love bum sex" instead of the delicate cherry blossom motif you wanted, it'll be too late.

EthelThePiratesDaughter But that’s just it we won’t be leaving without a deal, unless the EU force us to, If TM and the government believes as you,how bad it will be she will do some kind of deal BINO

^^ this is the analogy I’ve been looking for. Thank you Ethel.

If you think Theresa May is in the driving seat here you are sadly mistaken.

You're welcome, Janet!

EthelThePiratesDaughter Perhaps I do, I wouldn’t be silly enough to be in that position, I would have checked the tattoo artist out first before being in that position, I wouldn’t just pick any random TA

So who did you think the tattoo artist would be when you voted?

EthelThePiratesDaughter I think there were two TA one said remain one said leave I picked the leave one as I didn’t like somethings the remain one does

"But that’s just it we won’t be leaving without a deal, unless the EU force us to,"

No, we will be leaving the EU without a deal because no one could actually come up with a deal that satisfies all the Brexit factions. It isn't the EU's responsibility to make us a special deal, they have offered a number of options, but the UK wants all the benefits with none of the responsibilities.

But Rosstac, you are in the tattoo parlour, having followed your friends’ advice. Now you can see their collective judgment is seriously flawed are you going to stay there and let the tattooist deface you, because you made a democratic decision, or are you going to get the hell out of there?

That's not the question I asked, is it?

WiseUpJanetWeiss When I eventually get to the TA I’ve picked without numerous people trying to change my mind, not knowing what this TA is going to be like untill they actually performed said tattoo, when the tattoo has been carried out I can then make a factual judgement, there’s always laser surgery down the line or a jumper

But there weren't just two tattoo artists- there was a whole street of them. But those in Leave Street didn't put out any photos of the work they had done - just a few pretty pictures, so which one did you chose?

God, you're really scraping the barrel now.

You'd seriously prefer painful and expensive laser surgery or a lifetime of jumpers over just not getting the horrible tattoo from the dodgy tattoo artist in the first place?

That's idiotic.

we won’t be leaving without a deal, unless the EU force us to

Let's break this down, and see if we can work out where peoples understanding fails.

1. The UK has a vote of it's own volition (nobody forced us to) and decides to "Leave the European Union" (as worded).

2. Having had that vote which was advisory, (but that ships sailed), the UK - again, with no help from the grown ups - decides to invoke the EUs article 50 mechanism for leaving the UK.

3. At this point, it's up to the UK to suggest to the EU how it wishes to leave in an orderly way.

4. The UK puts those proposals to the EU for agreement and

5. the UK leaves the EU

Now unless someone can cite something from the EUs own legislative archive requiring the EU to prepare "a deal" then I think any talk of the EU "forcing" the UK to leave without a deal is disingenuously bordering on dishonest. Or simple ignorance.

There are countless articles by the various EU officials about Brexit where they stress (clearly not hard enough ) that any form of Brexit will harm the EU, and that they aren't in the business (unlike some of their member states) of planning to to any harm to themselves.

That's what they are looking to the UK to provide the deal, and them to (hopefully) accept it. If they can't accept whatever dogs breakfast Theresa May managed to cobbled together between her toast and tea one morning, there is no mechanism for them to counter it.

Personally I don't really care what Brexiteers think about this, as test of the world certainly gets it. If Brexiteers want to parade the world stage whining about the mean EU, they had better be prepared for the sound of laughter.

Of course, you could always disprove that. With facts. But then that would be a first.

I'm a remainer. But I'm interested to see the Indyref yessers response to this.

No clear plan.
Binary question.
Change as opposed to status quo.
Marginal result.

Would you pull Scotland out of UK on those terms?

DGRossetti If we want to do a deal, ( they are negotiating) and I want to do a deal with you, but you will not except any of the deals have you not forced me to leave with no deal ?

If you offer "deals" that are contrary to my interests then , no, I won't deal. You decided to leave; I didn't throw you out. That's how negotiations work @Rosstac .

"but you will not except any of the deals have you not forced me to leave with no deal ?"

No, the UK could have offered a deal which would have been acceptable to the EU and its member states, instead internal fights in the Tory party took 18 months to come up with an idea that pleased no one, and were not permisable because it was basically offering the EU "Heads I win, tails you lose."

All this stuff about tattoos reminds me of that television programme, where people have gone to Magaluf and got dodgy tattoos. They then come on TV and have another tattooist cover up the original abomination with an even more dodgy tattoo but the victim trills how wonderful it is now. This could be a metaphor for Brexit, the whole premise of it was dodgy, so we (Govt, Tory Press) are trying to cover it up with yet more dodgy premises and Leavers trilling that yes, they really do want the country to suffer for 50 odd years because that is so wonderful.

DGRossetti If we want to do a deal, ( they are negotiating) and I want to do a deal with you, but you will not except any of the deals have you not forced me to leave with no deal ?

Here's a little thought experiment.

you go into a shop - any shop. You look around, and decide you'd like X, Y and Z.

Shop owner says ... that's great, but you have to have A and B, since the law of the land requires that I can't sell just X,Y, and Z.

You leave in a huff (or maybe a taxi ) as you refuse to have that deal.

Now whose "forcing" you to leave.

Of course you can blame the law which requires A and be to be purchased with X,Y and Z. But that's how laws work. In Europe anyway. Maybe laws are different in the UK ?

DGRossetti If they don’t want to a deal, why waste time negotiating, we would like a deal, if they don’t agree a deal, then they will have forced us to leave with no deal, that is true