Would remain is accept another vote if it had gone the other way

[Childrenofthestones]

Just a quick question to remainers.

Would you still be clamoring for another vote had you won and it had gone your way with the same sort of margin.

If brexiteers were asking for another vote would you agree to it.

No lying now....honest answers please

It really is unpatriotic of Remainers to moan that the house is on fire. We should be looking at the positives, such as no longer having to pay Council Tax or do the hoovering. Also, camping in the forest will be character-building, like the good old days.

Yes.

Actually this was the second referendum. There is no reason why there shouldn't be a 3rd.

Unfortunately (given that it is a complete and utter waste of time and money etc), I do expect that we will leave the EU.
I then expect we will have another referendum in the future and ask to rejoin, if they will let us.

The only good thing I can see about this in the long term , is we might finally get over our obsession with ww2 (and I say this as someone whose father fought in it) and our unrealistic view of our place in the world. We might learn how to play nicely.

The only good thing I can see about this in the long term , is we might finally get over our obsession with ww2 (and I say this as someone whose father fought in it) and our unrealistic view of our place in the world. We might learn how to play nice

In 50 years time.

I wonder if I could be stuffed like Jeremy Bentham, and put in a glass case somewhere to watch it happen ?

It will certainly provide a useful starting point for the UK to experience a civil war.
If you can't contain yourselves over a queue in a teddy bear shop or some blokes kicking a ball about, what fun there will be in the bread queues.
You would have to burn your house down completely to be exempt from council tax.

It will certainly provide a useful starting point for the UK to experience a civil war

Interesting to speculate how it might unfold. Generally, you'd have Remain enclaves (London) holding out against the more rural areas ? (So eerily similar to the English/British civil war ?). With the added spice of an allegedly Brexiteer government in Westminster, surrounded by "the enemy".

Of course even before the first shot was fired, people would have chosen sides for ulterior reasons anyway. Not all Royalists supported the King, and not all Parliamentarians were misty-eyed idealists pining for the fjords democracy for all.

I know it's shocking to suggest some people may have chosen Leave for reasons other than the UKs membership of the EU, but there. I've said it.

Interesting comparison with the English civil war...

The wars left England, Scotland, and Ireland among the few countries in Europe without a monarch. In the wake of victory, many of the ideals (and many of the idealists) became sidelined.

Of course rather than a monarchy, well be one of the few countries without a functioning government or a trade deal.

And of after the civil war, ofcourse there was a lack of unitu, infighting, open hostility

The UK government effectively stopped working properly nearly 2 years ago.

I see HMG are trying to keep Carney in the UK. Personally, it might be best if he did decide to complete his term and no more. No one would blame him, and given the amount of shit he would have to swallow, being the conduit for the shitstorm that Brexit will bring economically, no salary in the world would make up for it.

They can't bribe him with a peerage either.

I hope the Brexiteer disdain for Carney prevails too. In fact, I want Brexiteers to keep getting what they want like A50. The sooner the better. Maybe then, they'll learn Chinese.

If remain had won and then it turned out there was a possibility Russians had influenced the vote and the flow of money to campaigns was a bit suspicious then morally i would feel the need for another referendum. To have a referendum compromised in such a way is imo undemocratic, unlawful, morally wrong.

That to one side.

Had there been an actual plan to vote on then yes I would be all for a second ref, I may have changed my vote to leave if the plan looked good, practical, logical, and safe.

Also i am a bit pissed at the structure of the referendum, it was non binding so they didnt put stipulations in, like each country of britain needs to have a majority for the ref results to be conclusive. Downright lies were told and somehow thats ok because the ref was non binding. So in this hypothetical remain won world I would still be aggraved at that.

Also any ref needs to include all of Britain's overseas territories for me to consider it legit.

As is stands for me personally whoever won the last ref is not a real winner due to the the above reasons.

I voted Remain and I don't want another vote now. Leavers made this mess; they can clear it up.

They can't though, can they? They can barely tie their own shoelaces.

Leavers made this mess; they can clear it up.

They need to acknowledge there's a problem first. Just like addiction.

And, in another parallel to addiction, they need to acknowledge the harm they have done to those around them.

It's pretty ironic, isn't it?

The public were asked to name a boat, the public would vote for the winner.
Someone opted for: BoatyMcBoatface'.
The public found it hilarious, and voted it to top position.
Despite the fact that this vote really wasn't of economic or political significance, it wasn't a huge surprise that it was overruled- because it was ridiculous.

Then I give you Brexit.

I'm sure the most strategic plan would have been to educate the public about the ramifications. Perhaps there shouldn't have even been a public opportunity to vote in the first place?

It was a lot like asking the public to 'chooses a green one, or a yellow one', with no further explanation whatsoever.

It was a lot like asking the public to 'chooses a green one, or a yellow one', with no further explanation whatsoever.

Not quite, since we were already on a green one or yellow one (depending on you POV).

We were being asked to get off a working one on the vague hope (I wouldn't have staked £1 on it) that a better one will be here soon.

Farrage made it clear he would not accept 48:52 vote if 48 was Brexit. I now want a say in the final deal so have signed the online petition change.org/finalsay

Yes, that's very true.
I guess we'll all be finding out the spec of the yellow one - after we've discarded the proof of purchase.

Farage made it clear he would not accept 48:52 vote if 48 was Brexit.

Does rather beg the question who the fuck is Farage to accept or not accept democratic votes ?

(When Gulf War 1 was one, and Saddam called for a Jihad, a muslim friend used that sentiment about Saddam -"Who the fuck is he to call for Jihad ....")

*It will certainly provide a useful starting point for the UK to experience a civil war

Interesting to speculate how it might unfold. Generally, you'd have Remain enclaves (London) holding out against the more rural areas ? (So eerily similar to the English/British civil war ?). With the added spice of an allegedly Brexiteer government in Westminster, surrounded by "the enemy".*

There is research about the GDP per capita tipping point below which a democracy is likely to fail and be replaced by autocracy. It used to be the equivalent of US$7,000 a year but the Greek crisis upended this a bit. It also depends a bit on distortions in the age profile of the population.

I'm reading an excellent book at the moment (if you like to worry/watch in horror at what is unfolding) - David Runciman's "Confidence Trap - a history of democracy in crisis from World War 1 to the present". Concerningly, he has updated it with a new book called "How democracy ends". When sober writers like Runciman start writing books with titles like this, you know something is up.

Of course there are valid reasons for choosing not to characterise the UK as a democracy at all. We can't change our head of state, for a start. Also, only the majority view ever gets actioned - so (as we are discovering) 49.9999% of the population may as well stick their views up their arse for all the good it will do.

So some cynics might say we can't be seeing the end of what we never had. All that's happening is the smoke and mirrors have been taken away as no longer needed.

It's hard not to view any system where people are able to put themselves forward for power as inherently flawed. Maybe, after the revolution, we'll go back to a system of random annual selection ?

War is very profitable, and it allows you to clear out the ammunition nearing it's 'use by' date.

Honestly I really would have been fine about it ....i genuinely think that this issue is too complex to rely on a single vote.

I would have expected the other side to request another vote in fact I remember saying at the time that farage would try to force another

War is very profitable

Eisenhower (again) ....

If Remain had won on a narrow margin, whose campaign it then emerged had been based on a giant pack of lies, unattainable fairytale promises, electoral fraud and dodgy funding from Russian interference? Well, that would be fine, naturally .

And if Remain had won on said narrow margin with added fraud, I would have expected the government to announce that the Will of the People had been made crystal-clear on the basis of imaginary wording on the ballot paper, and that henceforth the UK would be joining Schengen, ditching the Pound for the Euro, trebling our payments to the EU, and replacing the official language of the country with Esperanto. And that anyone who expressed unease with this alleged Will is a Traitor and Saboteur who needs to be Silenced.

Why of course I would expect Leavers to be completely content with it, never criticise any aspect of the proceedings, "get over it" and "move on" .

Yes if the polls show genuine support for another vote.

Let's be clear. The desire for a first referendum was obviously manipulated. No one cared ... and then people cared a lot. The EU Anti Tax Avoidance Directive was tabled around this time.

sacrebleu
Have you seen the mumsnet pool result?

Unfortunately as we Have the terribly incompetent May nothing remotely sensible is going to happen.