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Brexit

Westministenders: Back to School

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/08/2018 13:01

No, I'm not referring to the start of a new parliamentary season, I'm referring to the number of politicians who need to literally go back to school. Its embarassing, and worrying.

Anyway, here is a slightly lengthy, end summer news round up for you.

The Brexit Headlines
It seems to be Cabinet Office policy to push for the Chequers Deal or for No Deal Even though Macron has very firm, plainly and clearly said "non" in no uncertain terms. Its significant because its come from the official Brexit Department and not from a sweating Dominic Raab at Dexeu.

He has however delivered the first batch of the Brexit Untechnical Papers which are supposed to advise what to do in the event of No Deal. In reality this is a PR exercise, which makes the assumption that some sort of minimual deal will have been done, rather than no deal at all, combined with a very practical plan for 'a wing and a prayer'. Which is a bit of an issue if we decide that we really are going to stick to the line that its Chequers or no deal.

These untechnical papers are ludicarious shallow, which some having the audaciency to say "plan for the news rules, but we haven't actually decided what the news rules are and we'll get back to you as soon as we've made them up". The completely skirt the entire subject of NI, saying merely, more or less "oh that one will just work itself out". Despite the untechnical papers don't include the crucial aviation one, which apparently was held back because it was regarded as 'too shambolic' which is quite the statement, if you've read any of them. Nor do they include details of the contract for hundreds of portaloos to line our motorways so that lorry drivers can still take a pee whilst they are stuck in queues for days. They might starve and no one else will have any food because all the lorries are stuck, but hell they'll be no exposure on the M20 to offend you.

Its not quite as bleak as it sounds though. The Chequers Deal is a vision of our future relationship with the EU. Its not the Withdrawal Deal. And the Withdrawal Deal (and backstop) is the thing that needs to be done in Oct / Nov. Which then will lead on to talks about the Chequers Deal. You can't talk about Chequers without having ALREADY agreed the Withdrawal. Which is very important to keep in mind as its continuely being lost in the media coverage. Could it be that all the sudden noise from the Cabinet Office, is an attempt to distract in the short term to protect the Withdrawal phrase?

Also as an alternative to Chequers, Macron is reportedly expected to propose something akin to an 'associate member' style agreement for the UK with a vision for the EU and its allies to form a series of "concentric circles", with Britain closely tied to the 27 "core" EU member states. If this sounds familiar it is. Guy Verhofstadt has been banging on about this as an idea since before Brexit. Its also a plan which has long been muted by Barnier too. It will probably go down like a lead balloon here, but there is a political will in the EU for a deal. There just isn't in the UK.

More generally in UK politics
Jeremy Corbyn has had a nice relaxing summer but after the hard upcoming weeks ahead, I think he'll still be looking forward to his holiday plans for the Autumn Break, when he visits Israel to profess he's still definitely not an anti-semite, because look he's visiting the evil Zion and talking to Jews. He will spend the next few month telling us that No Deal is a Very Bad Idea, whilst also trying to get his MPs to vote in ways that are a Very Bad Idea. Meanwhile the rest of Labour will indulge in a very public slanging match which most normal people have long since stopped caring about in anyway because they are so bored and disappointed in how far heads have been inserted up backsides.

Theresa May, has been in Africa, where she is trying to get trade deals with lots of countries we already have trade deals with through the EU. She's also in the midst of a fight with Spreadsheet Phil who has been busy telling her to butt out of the budget and realising information to undermine the 'No Deal' narrative all week. Oh and trying to persuade beg Mark Carney to stay another year at the BoE cos no one wants his job. Rees-Smug has been up to his usual English Gentleman Act where he replicates the MPs of the Victorian Era who were into fucking those from the colonies whilst stripping them for asserts, with impecable manners. Boris Johnson is looking for his next photo op where he can look zany and drop a headline grabbing offensive comment. If it winds May up, so much the better. The Tory Creche outing to Birmingham looks like its going to be a scream.

I should say something about the LDs here, so here's a tumbleweed for you.

Back to Brexit
The fishing wars have started. Michael Gove has yet to be sighted in a souwester though (give it time). The Scallop Wars are an insight into why we need a relationship with the EU. It turns out that the French are pissed because we've been using these big fuck off ships which dredge the sea bed and are a ecological disaster and haven't observed a break for a 'breeding season' this year, whilst the French are forced to do so by law. We had been observing an informal agreement where we stick to the same rules, but for some reason this year, some bright spark though it was a bad idea for us to do so. So the French have got a bit shirty in response. Gove is spitting the dummy and saying we will do something. The reality? Well what exactly can we do apart from go to the EU and use the EU courts apart from patrolling the seas with a lot of customs boats and officials we don't have? Cod Wars III here we come!

We've also announced plans for brand new white whale money pit satellite to circle solely over the UK. We aren't in need of coverage for the rest of the world, so we aren't going to waste money on flying over anywhere else who isn't prepared to help contribute financially to its construction. It is going under the draft name of 'Heliocentre'

In other news
If none of this cheers your spirits, then great news; Good Old Nige is making a come back!!! He's dead excited because he's planning his first big Nazi Leave means Leave rally in Bolton where he act out his childhood Hitler fantasy. It'll a cost you a fiver to get in. He's also bored and worried about his income, as he's now considering getting pasted in the London Mayoral Election for the publicity. So soon his face will be back on your TV boxes for Questiontime. Are you all so happy.

I rather suspect the Greens won't be objecting and will be only too happy they aren't getting the publicity they deserve as the 4th biggest party at the moment...

So the Summer is over and normal service is resuming. I hope you have enjoyed the rest and this post brings you a little up to speed. We have Party Conferences to look forward to in the upcoming weeks. Won't that be a joy to behold? And the resumption of shooting ourselves in the face in EU talks.

Oh and don't forget that Trump fellow too. Its all starting to look a bit tasty over there ahead of the November elections. What happens there in the next couple of months might be very important to what happens over here.

Who is excited?!

I am just dancing to the sound of the South African Beats.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
Bearbehind · 04/09/2018 17:30

From the survey: If a new party promising to deliver the Brexit outcome that you want is formed, are you more or less likely to vote for it than you were before it was formed?

What a stupid question!

How can you be ‘likely to vote for something that has not been formed’?!

DGRossetti · 04/09/2018 17:32

How can you be ‘likely to vote for something that has not been formed’?!

Almost as stupid as voting for something as vague as "Leave the EU" really ?

prettybird · 04/09/2018 17:34

Yes - that question flummoxed me in its inanity. What does "The Brexit outcome you want" mean ? Confused No comparable or clearer question about "If a new party formed that was OPPOSED to Brexit, would you support it?" Hmm

And as an SNP supporter/voter, I had to answer "Other" to the party I voted for/would vote for, so there is no way of them knowing that I support an anti-Brexit Party. Not that they even asked where in the UK you were Confused

woman11017 · 04/09/2018 17:37

Was she really Israeli ? Or a Nazi ? Or perhaps they used the same accountant

Because I recognised it immediately as a quote from the Nazis about how they equated non-Arayan lives with German lives. I think it was something like 10 slavs for one German

When the oppressed start to dress in the clothes of their oppressors

Thinking about those comments, and in honour of those whose work has enabled me, up till now, live in a country which abided by the rule of law and especially EU law, I need to respond.

I'm not sure what the 'accountant' reference means, but 3 of your statements appear to be in breach of the IHRA. Regardless of the racist little men in the labour party, the CPS does use it.

If you don't understand how hurtful it is to conflate Israel with the people who did what they did to the 6m, I can't help you.

We have to be extremely careful especially in these times about normalising anti semitism.

I am glad the state of Israel exists. If it had 80 and 110 years ago, my family and my children's family tree would have been much larger.

Mrsr8 · 04/09/2018 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 04/09/2018 17:59

NEC adopt IHRA definition + a rider about Palestine-Israel.

The cynic in me thinks the issue - even if it may be found to have started in attempts to undermine Corbyn - became a means by whic anti-semitism was used to coalesce voter support for Corbyn.

I'm prepared to listen to other explanations but ... that's what it looks like to me. ☹️

Mrsr8 · 04/09/2018 18:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

1tisILeClerc · 04/09/2018 18:03

We have a missive from Mr Raab this afternoon in his speech about the state of play.
On a personal note, assuming he is married he needs to get to grips with face powder or whatever you use to stop yourself looking quite so sweaty.
The content of the speech however can be summed up with the following few words:
Photocopier, Cake and Unicorns.
It would appear he enjoys tea and cake with Mr Barnier however.

Hazardswan · 04/09/2018 18:15

wise it'll be a problem more will face as the nhs comes under further strain, further along the brexit road with America threatening to up med costs. It's a bit of a hidden problem. But the take away is non-form = don't panic the meds are in the country but the nhs we all pay in to won't cough up for them bastards Flowers

woman nicely put Flowers

borntobequiet · 04/09/2018 19:13

My first thought re the sweating was that anyone having to deal with M. Barnier at relatively short notice might need a little chemical assistance.

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2018 19:25

I just took that survey - I like survey taking. But I agree it was odd. And weirdly obsessed with the chequers deal. It's a dead duck. It was impossible from the beginning - and as labour are the opposition, it's kind of their job to oppose it.
What on earth does it matter what we think about it? We can't have it - even if we all love it.
(well - clearly it doesn't matter what we really think. There was no 'have your say' section where we could actually type our real views and concerns - just a load of multiple choice selections that didn't always make sense.)

I'm glad the MN survey is getting mentioned on twitter. And I'm enjoying the bewailing of MN leavers who didn't take the survey and feel this is some kind of remain conspiracy.
It was a sticky in active. Anyone could have found it. Clearly 2000 people did. If more remainers than leavers did answer (and no where has it been said that they did) then all that proves is that remainers are more engaged in the brexit process... Leavers having created this giant festering turd and then run away from it. (oh sorry, they're 'bored') They don't then get to complain about the fact that remainers are dominating the survey (if they even are).
And they dare to label us 'moaners' when something hasn't gone our way. Hmm

Tanith · 04/09/2018 19:55

The blurb I saw with the survey said it was a regular thing. 80,000 filled in the last one, apparently.

Agree that question about the new party was confusing. I assumed it meant a new Centralist party that's been discussed for a while now.

TheElementsSong · 04/09/2018 20:16

Everything icantreachthepretzels said ☝️!

Mrsr8 · 04/09/2018 20:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2018 20:37

woman Flowers

Context & history matter when we say or do something:

The Holocaust was a uniquely horrible event of efficient, industrialised genocide that has indirectly affected gernerations of Jews, including their assessment of how likely it is that some enemies want a repeat performance.

Also important to look at who your allies would be before deciding if you agree with something:

e.g for me in both the 1975 and 2016 referenda, the fact that the hard left and hard right were against the Common Market and then the EU was an important factor in my choice of sides

Many hopping onto the bandwagon of attacking "Zionism" and Israel are neo-Nazis who deny or even glorify the Holocaust, or the far right who flirt with them, but don't feel able to openly express NAzi views.
Then of course there are the far left and the Islamic fanatics
A very nasty, dangerous stew of enemies

HesterThrale · 04/09/2018 20:38

Women will be earning £1250 less because of Brexit. A Women for a People’s Vote campaign is being launched.

Women can take back control of this disastrous Brexit

Four of the five ministers at the Department for Exiting the EU are men, with only one, junior, female minster. What’s more, the UK negotiating team for Brexit is only 11% female.
A rotten Brexit deal – or worse, no deal at all – could also overturn hard-won freedoms and rights, which a generation of UK women rely upon. Hardline Brextremists are dying to strip back equal pay legislation, anti-harassment laws, anti-discrimination legislation and other social rights under the cover of a “bonfire” of EU red tape.
So while the ins and outs of the arguments between the Great Men of Brexit might be great fun for the newspapers, their inability to compromise or empathise is incredibly serious for women.
Brexit means that the average woman’s pay will be 65p an hour lower than it would have been otherwise, which translates to about £1,250 a year for those who work full time. And while wages squeeze at one end, prices are rising at the other.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/infacts.org/women-can-take-back-control-of-this-disastrous-brexit/amp/

SusanWalker · 04/09/2018 21:37

Ben Bradshaw
Ben Bradshaw
@BenPBradshaw
.
@CommonsHealth
hears a trade deal with U.S. if
#Brexit
happens would include UK having to accept U.S meat from animals routinely treated unnecessarily with antibiotics, threatening our battle against deadly anti-microbial resistance

My mum had MRSA. It wasn't the cause of her death but she had continual infections from then until she died. A world without antibiotics doesn't bear thinking about.

Motheroffourdragons · 04/09/2018 21:48

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Buteo · 04/09/2018 23:13

Britain Elects @britainelects

Steven Woolfe MEP (Independent (formerly UKIP), North West England) has joined the Conservative Party

Westministenders: Back to School
Buteo · 04/09/2018 23:19

Election Maps UK @electionmapsuk

How the next general election would look if only 18-24s were allowed to vote (Data from @YouGov, 28-29th August). I'm expecting some great GIFs, everyone...

LAB: 66%, 600 Seats
LDM: 13%, 21 Seats
CON: 12%, 0 Seats
GRN: 4%, 1 Seat
SNP: 3%, 9 Seats
PLC: 0.4%, 1 Seat

Westministenders: Back to School
BigChocFrenzy · 04/09/2018 23:20

The MEP who had a punchup with another UKIP MEP outside the European Parliament and ended up in hospital ?
The MEP who cocked up again and sent in his nomination papers for the leadership after the final date and was disqualified ?
He was Arran Banks favourite for leader, btw

What a prize

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 04/09/2018 23:40

buteo that's very interesting. Would love to see how they've extrapolated that data though. Because we're (havering) down as going red and I highly doubt that would happen. We're famed for our young tories. We often get our youngsters shipped out for other marginal mps in London. Maybe closer in my hometown though.

Hazardswan · 05/09/2018 00:09

LOL @ woolfe joining conservatives. Can't make this shit up, it'd be to unbelievable.

prettybird · 05/09/2018 00:10

Link to a video of Lord Kerr, who wrote A50, talking in Perth on 25 July, saying that Brexit can be stopped.

https://www.facebook.com/1050896375014974/posts/1500996856671588/

lonelyplanetmum · 05/09/2018 06:29

How the next general election would look if only 18-24s were allowed to vote (Data from @YouGov, 28-29th August). I'm expecting some great GIFs, everyone...

LAB: 66%, 600 Seats
LDM: 13%, 21 Seats
CON: 12%, 0 Seats
GRN: 4%, 1 Seat
SNP: 3%, 9 Seats
PLC: 0.4%, 1 Seat

How is 66% of 18-24 year olds supporting Labour compatible with just over 70% of 18 to 24-year-olds who voted in the referendum backing Remain?

Just under 30% of them back Leave.

(From August- https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45098550)