Have your frienships and family relationships suffered as a result of Brexit?

[Wormzy]

Just that, really. If friends and/ or family members have clearly voted differently to you, has it changed the way you see them or interact with them? Have friendships broken down?

I haven't been able to vote, but the outcome of the vote affects me disproportionately. Family members have voted Leave. There have been arguments, also between friends, some ended in loss of contact.

I wonder how the Brexit vote has affected others on here?

One of the little problems with going onto WTO rules could be that it will be a LOT more expensive, say 10 percent upward AND having to 'hold our breath' for 7 - 10 years while the deals are made.
I think it was Greenland made 1 deal about fishing and that took 3 -4 years. What we would be needing is vastly more complicated.
Dropping tariffs to zero sounds attractive, but then everybody else has to do that too so you win on the swings and lose on the roundabouts.
It's all those pesky details again that the likes of JRM and Fox keep forgetting to mention.
Attempting to leave is a bit like a maze but there is only a very tiny door that is almost obscured. It can be done with say 10 years preparation......

Leaving is easier when you don’t set “red lines”.

To me, Brexit isn't "agree to disagree" opinions and politics - it's people's lives.

And that's why all the avoidance and silencing really worries me. So many people don't want to hear about Brexit, or avoid talking about Brexit, or actively try to shut other people up if they start talking about Brexit.

It's never the good stuff that folk want to sweep under the carpet, is it?

My mum is now claiming she didn't vote to leave. Because for her it's stopped being about buzzwords and slogans, and begun to seep into real life. Her friend's grandson hasn't spoken to his grandparents since the vote. Someone else's DIL has not been given leave to remain and she's taking the grandchildren when she has to go. Another of their friends' son's job is moving abroad because of Brexit. The carer who used to pop in on the elderly lady next door twice a day has left the country. Their friends in the south of France don't know if they can stay there.

Some days it seems like all I hear about is strife caused by Brexit. However it doesn't seem to have touched some people yet. I think perhaps they can't envisage it, they're going to have to feel it.

When the FT says Brexit puts 80% of jobs at risk it just sounds so outlandish that folk dismiss it.

(Also, the penny just dropped for me about why we shouldn't tell lots of people about our Brexit prepping. )

Good post landressy, I have seen the same. It has torn apart relationships with families and friends, i have lost a brother and some friends or perhaps it has made some of us realise that we really shouldnt put up with bile peoples views any longer, but I still believe we have to go through more sh!t to counteract the "democracy" argument that the far right rely on, so that they are not emboldened.

Ooooo! Yes! Brexit prepping!
Stock up on the Spam and pasta!

@Wholymoley - I'm a prepper. Brexit problems are just one of the realistic possibilities I prep for. Bad weather (regularly have problems in winter) being the other main one.
Don't really care if people take the piss out of me - I take the piss out if people for other stuff- but it is still a good idea to do a bit of low key stocking up even if you aren't a prepper.
I factor in who I might have to share our stocks with. And whiny unhelpful Leavers don't figure in my plans unless they can be useful to me.
And spam is revolting.

Buteo - I think your post from 20.42 last night is spot on!

And medication Wholy , don't forget medication, that needs stockpiling too.

It no longer really matters to me how people voted or their reasons for voting, yes I was disappointed in some, but they haven't spouted the racist twaddle that other posters have had to endure.

What really matters to me and everyone else in the UK is what happens next. No deal , rubbish deal or remain, because I honestly cannot see any other options at the moment.

No deal is the most harmful to 99.9% of UK citizens so should be avoided at all costs. Ditto WTO.

Rubbish deal, not the Chequers plan, which was dead in the water from day one, so what plan ? Truth is there isn't really one, now if the UK Government had not triggered Art 50 and actually come up with a reasonable plan and timescale to leave the EU an awful lot of us would be on other boards right now. They didn't so we aren't.

Remain, it is still an option, one that causes no actual hardship and one where we as a country maintain sovereignty, can deal with immigration ( as we always could) and still as Germany does, do trade deals with the rest of the world.

As the GMB union says the promises made during the 2016 campaign were not the reality we are facing.

We should not copy any other country but make our own trading deal to suit both the UK and the EU, We should also have much more freedom to trade out of the EU, which pleases me

Yep i can go with this but any FTA will be discussed AFTER next year, so what do do in April? we lose all our EU terms and conditions, the transition arrangement should be far longer, solely to avoid economic loss, as we re-arrange all those EU FTA we will lose.
Its fairly obv that any new FTA with the EU will not be as good as what we've got now and will take 2 or more years to reach agreement with 27 countries.

The UK, along with any other EU country can trade with whom ever they like, which is why you can buy BMWs etc the world over.

My - brexitier - MP was celebrating recently the world wide export success of a local food firm....until someone pointed out "how can this be Scott? we are still in the EU" ... the silence from him was deafening lol!

We also need time to sort out the NI border.

I think once brexit really starts to hit, they'll be far more division.

Why do people think we'll get better FTA with other countries if we are outside the EU rather than as members? We are a smaller market with less to offer outside. I know some countries we've said we can just copy and paste the deal we have as EU members and these other countries have said 'No' (S Korea, NZ) that they want a better deal (for them) than they currently have with the EU as we are a smaller market with less to offer (and will be desperate).

"Why do people think we'll get better FTA with other countries if we are outside the EU rather than as members? "

British exceptionalism.

People don't understand economics really, but quoting articles and sources that confirm their own bias.

JRM going on Andrew Marr and displaying an utter ignorance of how the WTO works whilst suggesting his solution to the Irish issue is a great example.

It's really sad. We are a big rich market for people to sell to (at the moment) but if we don't export our economy is hammered. And we are no longer a big rich market to sell to. We could have zero tariffs on stuff coming in but we'll have no money to buy it if we can't export as well. Because other people will impose tariffs on our goods because they can. And there is a big rich market right next door to us, the EU, which most countries want to trade with before they want to trade with us. We end up with the scraps.
We are about to lose a big free trade deal with Japan when we leave the EU - how long before we get another one with Japan?

It's really sad has to be the understatement of the year ! It's totally fucking ludicrous would be a far better one

Bellini what's the old Brexit saying ? The people are tired of exports ?

God, yes. The way free trade deals work is that countries negotiate which of their laws, standards, and regulations they will harmonise in order to let products and services trade freely without loads of red tape slowing them down. Tariffs are actually only one component of a trade deal.

So, if you're a country and you want to sell loads of stuff to someone and they want you to change some of your production standards to meet their needs (say, limit the medicines you feed to livestock for meat production, or how you structure your data policy so customers can opt out of you keeping their personal data forever to do whatever you want to do with it without their knowledge), would you consider changing your laws for:

A market of 1 billion people? (China)
A market of 513 million people? (EU with UK)
A market of 60 million people (UK only)

Whose regulations and standards are you going to be willing to work harder to meet to get access to the market?

@frumpety - I fluctuate between sad and fucking raging with anger.

Apart from the red tape being INCREASED the quality of goods the UK might want to sell to the EU (for example) has to be proven (more expense) to be equal or better than EU produced goods. In effect we have made the bar to jump over HIGHER. With tariffs which will now be placed on such goods, no profitability, considering members of the EU can make equivalent things without tariffs and broadly speaking their cost for manufacture is equivalent to the UK.
I suppose the UK could attempt to drop standards and 'undercut' the USA/China/wherever but the UK is too small to make a dent in any of those and a 'race to the bottom' usually ends badly.

Its so embarrassing watching this debacle unfold. The UK's negotiating stance has so far included :

1. Not having any sort of plan
2. Not turning up to negotiation meetings
3. Eventually coming up with a plan that includes things you absolutely know the EU cannot agree to
4. Best yet , threatening no deal which would see the UK short of food, medicines and planes that can take off and very possibly martial law

I bet the rest of the world are quaking in their boots at our hardcore negotiating stance and cannot wait to give us trade deals of our wildest dreams, either that or they think we have turned into a right set of daft twats. The whole thing is cringeworthy.

It makes me think of a 6 foot tall dad 'play boxing' with a 4 year old son where dad simply stands still while the tiddler runs around in circles.
Or maybe 'Dill' in Parsley.

@1tisILeClerc - obviously we now have Constable Knapweed sorting us all out at the border. (The Herbs fan here)

Yes, although in a slightly different way to many on this thread. I had an embarrassing shouty argument (in a Swiss restaurant!) with my MIL over Brexit, just after the result. MIL didn't vote because she couldn't, she's French.

I'm British and live in Switzerland with my French DH. I voted remain, as did all my immediate family. I was shocked and saddened by the result. I was still in this state when we went for dinner with visiting MIL, who holds the French as superior in most/all ways to the British.

She started ranting that the UK should be made an example of for voting to leave and the EU 'divorce fees' should be doubled to punish people. I said that while I was angry, I didn't agree as it was a democratic vote and more importantly, ~50% of the people didn't vote for it, so certainly shouldn't be 'punished'. She carried on and it ended with me asking her whether she'd be happy to see my family suffer as a result. She didn't give a very clear reply and to be honest I've not been able to forget about this ever since.

She's a very nice person generally, but this incident upset me.

The sovereignty thing is such a pile of crap. We wouldn't have been able to have a referendum if we didn't have sovereignty.

We wouldn't be leaving if we didn't have sovereignty.

And much good it's done us.

And btw the drugs thing is real. My dh can only take a specific drug. He is not allowed substitutes and therefore no generics. It's impossible to stock pile because of the way it is taken and the way it's prescribed. Not taking it could potentially have a catastrophic effect for him and our family. If that happens some of my real life politeness will be extremely frosty.

@Theworld.
Have you written to your MP and stressed to them that as your representative they are indirectly responsible for your DH's welfare?
It is important that this apparent failure to 'look after' members of the public are recorded. We should not have to be 'hoping for the best' in what is supposedly civilised UK. If/when things go wrong those responsible and those who should have acted in your interests need to be held to account. Documenting concerns now can only help that process if it becomes necessary. Naturally I hope it doesn't.
As a general question, what words or actions are being uttered by the 'usual' MPs? Are they all hiding under their sofas or is there really no opposition to the total insanity that is Westminster?

My mp usually spins the party line and until recently I would say next to useless.
However he has dipped him toe into pushing for some sensibleness - he was labelled a saboteur. I was amazed he had any backbone at all.