Is a No Deal exit really a possibility?

[StorminaBcup]

Is there really a risk of a No Deal for Britain leaving Europe or are they making it sound even more of an utter shambles (if that's possible), so that whatever deal we leave with won't be quite so bad in comparison?

viva even if I wanted to there is no common cause to get behind. There is chaotic infighting and no clear vision of what the future is meant to look like. This is not because remainers lack enthusiasm, of course they do they never thought it was a sensible idea. But because leavers it turns out have no idea what they actually want that is available in the real world or how to get anything.

Cattenbury, when was the U.K. every a small and insignificant land??? You must be thinking of a different country than me. I do not want to go backward and I know all r you remoaners think brexiteers want the heady highs of the British Empire again but I don't. I just want pride in my country and to make our own laws and rules and be beholden to no one.

to make our own laws and rules and be beholden to no one
Except the WTO

Jason118 For me personally, I would be happy to stay in the EU as we are, just pause or control ( not 3 month rule ) FOM, just have a system we’re you have to have a job to come to, all have to be registered ( yes I know that’s are government) All figures for immigration are at best widely optimistic with no real idea how many are here at anytime, how can you plan the infrastructure if you don’t know how many are here and can’t control how many come in

Ta1kinpeace He might not, but a bad deal will have bad consequences for them,

We do make our own laws and we work as part of a team to make laws for Europe as a whole.
We are not going to survive if we do not have some reciprocal arrangements with other countries thus we are always going to be beholden. Even if you just want only WTO .
We are also part of the UN and NATO and I am sure many other organizations whose rules and regulations we comply with.

I just want pride in my country and to make our own laws and rules and be beholden to no one.

Except the WTO and the global economy. You want to have pride in a country that's made itself a laughing stock of the Western world, of so little significance its about to be held for ransom by, well, everyone and voted to tank its own currency and economy. Yeah, okay

Bearbehind So any business is happy to lose 30% if it’s business overnight

They, unlike us, have been planning to lose that business for 2 years.

Stand united and firm

No fucking way.

I can't believe we are careering towards this.
Of course we can leave without a deal, nobody has to agree to do anything for us.

In simple terms it's like a divorce.

What one party wants the other party does not have to agree to.

Rosstac
All of your complaints about Freedom Of Movement are entirely down to decisions taken by Whitehall
Brexit will not change any of them

to make our own laws and rules and be beholden to no one

There is a slight flaw in this argument. If you are trading with a country you have to also abide by their rules and standards in order to have a trade agreement. A bit like Chinese imports being banned for not meeting the BSI certification.

Vivalarevolution, your question is a complex one to answer as the British Isles have been invaded and conquered many times (with subsequent changes to national borders, cultures and demographics), but I promise you that these islands were once small and insignificant as far as most of the world was concerned. We're not inherently special or powerful. All superpowers rise and fall, and we are on the way down.

I think leaving without a deal is a probability not a possibility.

Thank god I'll still be able to buy my BLT. I feel soooo reassured about everything now. Any idea how much this BLT will cost or are retailers happy to absorb the additional tariffs so I can enjoy some salty crunchy goodness at lunchtime?
After all, the government's promises have always been kept, haven't they?

@Tokyosushi

Norway & Switzerland are both members of the EEA & EFTA. This means they are effectively members of the EU single market & customs union, and they have to abide by its rules, specifically the ‘four freedoms’.

If the U.K. wanted a similar arrangement, it could all have been agreed in about a fortnight. Brexiteers hate this idea, because it would mean A, accepting free movement will continue indefinitely and B, abiding by EU rules, which we would have no influence over. They call this situation BRINO - Brexit in name only.

Would this situation be an ideal outcome for the UK, which is world’s fifth largest economy? No, but it would be far better than the catastrophe of No Deal.

It's incredible that leavers STILL don't understand (or want to understand) what they voted against.

Do you still not understand that the government has always had the power to control FOM under EU law?? They have chosen not to.

Leavers do an awfully good job of living up to the characteristics they're so adamant they don't possess.

Really helpful BonnieF thank you!

Bit late but back to fishing:
When it was realised the fishing grounds were being fished to extinction it was proposed that some of the fishermen should be bought out in a 'scrappage' scheme. Most of the European fishermen that wanted 'out' simply sold their boats and moved on. The UK Fishermen had areas of 'sea' allocated to boats (different to the European schemes) so when boats were sold the fishing quota went with it. Some Europeans spotted this so naturally bought the boats, scrapped them but retained the fishing rights. It pays to read the 'small print'! The fact Mr Farage was 'down the pub' during such discussions didn't help.
WTO basic rules are total crap, which is why no one else trades by them. It takes years to set up 'deals' so what are we going to do for the 5 - 10 years while the deals are struck?
The 'Laws' across Europe are broadly similar. There are variations of course, the European Parliament has flexibility. The UK has been involved in drafting many of the laws over the years and each country has a right to veto aspects that it can't implement. The ECJ has overall power but in the last 40 years there are I believe only 5 instances of disagreement between the UK and the ECJ.
The EU is probably more democratic at a 'citizen VS government' level compared to the UK.
There are no BRITISH owned major car manufacturers. The Germans, Japanese and Americans invested in manufacturing and employ British workers. If they can't make a profit they will leave. As manufacturing plants cost billions to set up they won't pack up and go, but they won't reinvest for new models so when the models change they will go at that point. With the likelihood of recession in the UK there will be fewer able to afford new cars so relocating manufacturing to mainland Europe or elsewhere will be a double loss for the UK as we won't be involved in making them and the new tariffs will make them more expensive. There are plenty of other countries that are on the 'up' who will buy new cars.

Am I reading this thread right that Brexiteers are actually blaming remainers for the very likely scenario that Brexit will be a disaster for the UK

when was the U.K. every a small and insignificant land???

Our previous powerful status was built predominantly on our naval power. Naval power is increasingly irrelevant in a world with air travel and e-commerce. On a global level, our influence has been diminishing for a century or more. We've retained a significant level of influence due to our role as part of the European bloc but also with strong links to the USA. By leaving the EU, we either need to link ourselves to the US (as a much weaker ally) or fade into relative insignificance.

Economically, we don't have many natural resources or huge populations like the other global powerhouses. We carved ourselves an excellent niche in banking and services, but our free access to Europe's financial markets is a big part of that. We are innovative in science and technology, but the most successful projects are done collaboratively with our European counterparts or with the assistance of big EU research grants that we have now shut ourselves out of. It's hard to see how we can be a "great independent nation". What can we offer better alone than we could within the EU?

viva even if I wanted to there is no common cause to get behind.

exactly, There is no "common cause", there is no one "treating us with contempt" There is no competition between us and Europe,

Everyone is just floundering round in the dark trying to build some sort of life raft from the wreckage we have created.

Europe isn't working against us, they don't know what the hell is going on either.

"Theyneedusasmuchasweneedthem" is utterly missing the point, they don't want us to sink without trace, but there is nothing they can do to prevent it.

@Vivalarevolution
What particular EU laws are you against?

@Rosstac
Jason118 Sales were over 20 Billion last year 2 out of every 7 cars made in Germany get exported to the U.K., a lot of business to lose

Where do you get that incredible statistic? The German car industry is worth €400 billion. www.gtai.de/GTAI/Content/EN/Invest/_SharedDocs/Downloads/GTAI/Industry-overviews/industry-overview-automotive-industry-en.pdf

At 20 billion the UK only accounts for 5% of that.

No wonder everone has such total contempt for Leave statistics.

It's why I didn't reply - utter bollocks of course

'Am I reading this thread right that Brexiteers are actually blaming remainers for the very likely scenario that Brexit will be a disaster for the UK '

Of course they are! It's Remainers' fault, it's Barnier's fault, it's the EU's fault. It's always everyone else's fault

teaandbiscuitsforme please tell me what powers the UK has under FOM to stop anyone from the EU coming here to life, And do it without mentioning the 3 month rule, yet again I’ll say again WITHOUT mentioning the 3 month rule which is really unfit for purpose in the real world,