Remainders always start anti Brexit threads.

[Ihatemycar]

I've been reading Brexit threads and it's always the same people talking about how unhappy they are about Brexit.
I guess Brexit leave voters have no time to waste on forums.

Surfer
If they're here they're already in Europe

'There're just chancers'

'They' (other them why don't you) are just kids. 'They' are vulnerable. 'They' don't understand the country they are in. 'They' have family they want to get to. 'They' speak English. 'They' are scared.

Those of us fortunate enough to be born and brought up in the later half of the twentieth century in Europe should get down on our knees and thank God for the blessings we have. We should also be careful of labelling other significantly less fortunate people as 'chancers' - shame on you.

Kids?
They’re at least 20 if they’re a day.

The ones in France are already in a place of safety, they’re just chancers trying to get into the UK because we’re a soft touch
I don't think France is a place of safety for many refugees, so agree with your earlier post about them wanting to leave. We are not a 'soft touch' now at all, and we are still in the EU.

it also needs proper infrastructure, resources and support to be put in place
I am constantly amazed by Greece, poor in money, is so rich in humanity, taking in over a million refugees since 2015 and its population is 11 million. They have a history of welcoming the less fortunate.

But even this argument is kind of redundant. Refugee numbers to the EU have plummeted over the last year.

Refugees and immigrants to the EU and Britain are not the problem, I think more and more people are realising that. Inequality and corruption are.

Britain at its richest times in Elizabethan times and 10/ 20 years ago was a magnet for those who had the courage to try to get here and make a life for themselves and others here.

I’d send them straight back to where they came from
Many EU and non EU British have chosen to go in the last year. Immigration, especially 'EU immigration' is plummeting to Britain now, emigration is on the increase.

I value what surfer is saying because she is saying what a lot of people think, and it needs to be talked about.

Surfer I've seen this play twice

playhouse.londontheatres.co.uk/the-jungle/

Might I suggest you also see it to hear the actual testimony of refugees. Rather than sharing your own misconceptions.

We are indeed fortunate in our place and time of birth compared to many.

SurferJet - i think the fact that there are no ID cards also makes it easier to stay under the radar.

But not ALL illegal immigrants in the EU want to go to the UK.

Also - if there is no deal, then surely the UK border will be in the UK again and no longer in France. So more will arrive. Has anyone heard anything about that?

There're just chancers
You have admitted yourself that what they are doing is extremely dangerous. What must they be running away from to risk that? Do you ever ask yourself that? They may not be refugees but they are not just risking their lives on a whim are they? Fwiw I live in an area that has a lot of migrants and this is a big problem. I don't want that problem either but I also don't want to lose my humanity. Any effective solutions will be slow and complicated to implement. There is no quick and easy solution and we should not pretend there is. We would also do well to remember our role in creating or contributing to these problems in the first place!

We are indeed fortunate in our place and time of birth compared to many
I think a lot of our grandparents or great grandparents would have known actual hunger, my own father was a hungry poor kid, in 1930s Sunderland. Many of us are rich beyond our knowing.

Many of the Syrian refugees were just regular educated affluent middle class, lower middle class folks who suddenly got caught in a war not of their own making. I have been, and always will be thankful for what luck I've had to be born into this country at this time, so far.

JWIM
Do you think the people involved in that play would enjoy living next to a refugee camp like the jungle?
Would they open up their 2 million pound town house in Holland Park to 10 refugees?

But thank you for the link. I’m sure the play milked a few lefties / vegans / NIMBY’s.

And might I suggest you hear the actual testimony from the people in france currently living with this problem.

Frequency I don't believe it's a shitstorm at all. I'm not going to say there aren't any risks and there is an element of uncertainty.
I just don't believe that we can't do it alone.
Why not?
There are great elements to the EU but flexibility isn't one of them.
Also if we lose they lose we all have too much to lose.

Hazardswan - I have loads of plums!

....this year's first batch started, some of last year's plum gin in a bottle, gin macerated plums (from decanting last year's batch) and I still have loads of plums left over (and most of the plums still on the tree only stopped picking them because I'd filled two bowls ! ) I'm currently enjoying the pleasure of the smell of cinnamon and cooking plums wafting through the house as I begin the jam making process (that's one of the bowls of plums now used up )

Many of the cast are refugees. Why not challenge yourself to see it and see if your opinion is reinforced or adjusted?

Due to heavy pruning, I won't have plums until next year

car if you think the EU lacks flexibility you are likely going to find the WTO a real disappointment.

And might I suggest you hear the actual testimony from the people in france currently living with this problem.
Who's saying it's not a problem? It's one MASSIVE problem. But you solution is just pass the problem on to someone else.

Challenge accepted.
Only because I live in London.

Ihatemycar
Could you explain something to me please? The part that says that the U.K. is great, doesn’t need the EU and never has? The one that says that the U.K. is a great, powerful country?

I know this is OLD news (but in 3~4 years, I doubt much has changed tbh), but some parts of the U.K. are actually as poor and sometimes poorer than areas in Poland or Hungaria.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2617938/Revealed-How-parts-Britain-poorer-POLAND-families-Wales-Cornwall-Europes-worst-off.html
And more recently, that 9 out of 10 of the poorest areas in north Europe are in the U.K.
www.indy100.com/article/are-9-of-the-poorest-regions-in-northern-europe-really-in-the-uk--eJ0axHCqmx

I live in one of those deprived areas, one of those that has greatly benefitted from the EU sending financial support BECAUSE it’s seen as a very deprived area.
I can tell you that I have seen the change happening here already, economically. Shops closing. Choices in supermarkets reducing to the cheapest brands/products.
It’s great you haven’t seen anything yet happening. I assume you are living in a much richer area than me.

But the arrogance of thinking that because YOU haven’t seen any changes means that no change has happened!
Or that YOU living in an area with great economic power (with coffe shops etc etc) meaning that everyone is too....

Maybe you need to educate yourself a bit about your own country and how much a lot of people are actually struggling tbh.

pretty that looks lush! I really do live in the wrong part of the country. so jealous and your very good to be doing such a varity of things with it, id just eat them and maybe make a crumble.

Surfer Suggest you get a seat in one of the 'country' areas rather than sitting in the more expensive upper seats. We sat in 'Sudan'. The cushions on the floor options looked a bit uncomfortable. And I do get the irony of that in the context of the privations borne by refugees in their journeys.

Ha, no worries, thanks for the tip.
I’ll report back.

I would be quite sure that the (mostly) young guys trying to get across to the UK would much prefer to stay in their country of origin if it was safe and there were decent job opportunities.
The guys I saw at the French port were in their 20's, generally well dressed and sporting mobile phones.
Taking Brexit out of this altogether, the whole world needs to find a way to rebalance society. There are simply not sufficient jobs that pay a wage sufficient to support the population in a 'fair' way.
The UK government is claiming highest employment figures BUT with zero hours contracts and poor wages there are far too many people unable to have a 'good' lifestyle. The problem is worldwide, and needs addressing on a world level.
One of the EUs activities (on our behalf) is trying to keep the war in the Northern parts of Africa from spreading across the Mediterranean. It is being citicised for some of it's policies but it is part of the reason the numbers of 'immigrants' has fallen from a million or more a year, a few years back, to the tens of thousands.

The young people I work with every day came over as children of 14 or 15. They want to be with family or friends.

@surferjet as the mother of a son I thought you might realise how vulnerable young men can be. They seem tough, but at 16 they are still little boys. They tell stories that would make you cry, just imagine that happening to your son.

These 'chancers' are all humans. You can't use your own son as an argument to make us feel sympathy for you while dismissing other mothers children as 'chancers'.

Remainders always start anti Brexit threads

The clue is in your title. If they were Pro Brexit they wouldn't be remainers would they

Moussemoose
My son wouldn’t leave me to fend for myself in an unsafe country. He’d stay, or take me with him to the nearest safe country - he wouldn’t drag me across Europe to some hell hole camp in France waiting to throw me on a lorry in the vain hope I can cling on for 15 hours until I reach the UK.

These 'chancers' are all humans. You can't use your own son as an argument to make us feel sympathy for you while dismissing other mothers children as 'chancers'

My son wouldn’t leave me to fend for myself in an unsafe country

Most of us are mums and are doing what we what we think are our kids' best interests and vv with our lovely kids. surfer is going to check the play; I'm impressed. I think I might too, thanks JWIM Maybe we could start a new inclusive brexit arms bar that we can all have a wee dram in.

Nice plums prettybird. I'm a useless gardener and cook. What would you do with a load of elderberries and eating apples?