Remainders always start anti Brexit threads.

[Ihatemycar]

I've been reading Brexit threads and it's always the same people talking about how unhappy they are about Brexit.
I guess Brexit leave voters have no time to waste on forums.

I don't want to leave the EU because I think it will be very bad for the UK, I care about the UK, I care about my British DC and their future.
I am utterly perplexed as to why my country should start a long slow decline at the very best to satisfy a few extremists like JRM who are already protecting their money outside of the country. Leaving is a deeply unpatriotic act in my eyes.

17.4 million thick people? How does this country works with so many ordinary thick humans walking around voting for things that only the clever should vote on.

We want and independent Britain.
In the modern day you cannot function as a totally independent country. Those new blue passports will still have to fulfil the requirements set by the International Civil Aviation Organization, for example. I can't remember voting for the Secretary General of that, and yet we have European Parliament elections every five years.

17.4 million thick people? How does this country works with so many ordinary thick humans walking around voting for things that only the clever should vote on.

It works because most of the thick people don't normally have to do clever things. That's why we would normally allow the clever people to do the clever things (it's what politicians used to do on our behalf)

It isn't helpful to get into a thick/clever debate. There were a lot of lies told to people for a start, the bus for example. There were people who didn't see what they had to lose by trying something different when they had been told for years that the Eu was to blame for their concerns.There were a lot of people who had little idea what a custom union was and what it's impact on trade was. There was no reason for large groups of the population to be educated about a wide range of complicated and difficult areas like the compatibility of the GFA with a hard border. There was an understandable lack of education and a poor campaign to remain which failed to make these issues really clear. It was also a very emotional issue which is hard to argue against with hard facts.

Jason looks like Britain produces a disproportionate amount of thick people. No wonder we have been dependent of clever people in the EU. They tell us what's best for us as we are too dumb to know.

Woodfires I agree but I've been told I'm thick so many times just because I voted leave.
I been told to F off too for the same reason.

Ihate I never actually said that Leavers were thick. I am also leaving this thread for the sake of my mental health which is actually very fragile right now. I remember a quote from the SN threads about people who had children with autism or ADHD and had people in their lives who refused to accept this and insisted that it was just bad behaviour. I think the phrase was, ‘You can’t educate pork’.
I can totally relate to that right now.

It's unfair to suggest leave voters are thick. The issues were incredibly complex and not explained well by either side. One side relied on vague soundbites, outright lies and the power of the media. The other side appeared to believe the public would take it upon themselves to research and that they'd listen to expert economists who discussed issues they didn't understand in ways inaccessible to the general public without further learning.

Economics and trade are complex subjects that the vast majority of the wider public have no reason to fully understand. I'll admit, most of if baffles me and I am far from thick.

What irritates me about leave voters is their steadfast belief in these soundbites even when it is explained in simple terms why they don't make sense and it's clear they don't fully comprehend what the soundbites or Brexit itself actually entails. It irritates me more that they still cling to the hope they are right and anyone who says otherwise fell for 'project fear' when it is becoming increasingly apparent that project fear is happening. The pound is in decline, some big business and manufacturing companies have already left, others are winding down with a view to leave and more have spoken out to say they are unsure about their future in the UK. The price of food has already risen. All of this will get worse and that's without the shortages the UK Government's own papers worry about due to ports backing up and trade agreements not being in place, not to mention Nothern Ireland and the good friday agreement/hard border issue.

I would have much more respect for leavers if they held their hands up and said "I didn't understand but voted with my heart/read the daily mail/didn't know we could already remove immigrants who don't find work/didn't realize we had a veto or whatever."

I would have more respect still if they could give a tangible benefit to brexit beyond vague, nonsensical utterings about freedom and national pride.

Woodfires has nailed it. Leavers, very understandably in many cases, voted for change, without necessarily drilling down in to how that change would manifest itself wrt the detail of EU legislation and the negative impact this would have on on trade, travel, the environment, farming, security (to name a few) and the economy overall. Voting for "leave" has now become a cultural marker, a social identifier, unrelated to facts or legal detail.

Jason looks like Britain produces a disproportionate amount of thick people

Did you not know that half of Brits have a below average IQ level?

What irritates me about leave voters is their steadfast belief in these soundbites even when it is explained in simple terms why they don't make sense and it's clear they don't fully comprehend what the soundbites or Brexit itself actually entails. It irritates me more that they still cling to the hope they are right and anyone who says otherwise fell for 'project fear' when it is becoming increasingly apparent that project fear is happening

I agree however, I’d say that describes brexiteers like the op- and not millions of people who merely marked the leave box and have since either regretted it or given it little thought.,

"Did you not know that half of Brits have a below average IQ level?"

Not everyone who voted Leave was stupid. But people who have spent the last 2 years reading the Brexit threads on Mumsnet and are happy that we are heading for a No Deal or Hard Brexit are either very very stupid or are planning to take advantage of the misery of millions to line their own pockets.

Of course not all Leave voters are stupid.

But the ones who talk about freedoms and independence and "making our own laws" without being able to have a sensible discussion or provide any evidence certainly are.

What irritates me about leave voters is their steadfast belief in these soundbites even when it is explained in simple terms why they don't make sense and it's clear they don't fully comprehend what the soundbites or Brexit itself actually entails. It irritates me more that they still cling to the hope they are right and anyone who says otherwise fell for 'project fear' when it is becoming increasingly apparent that project fear is happening. The pound is in decline, some big business and manufacturing companies have already left, others are winding down with a view to leave and more have spoken out to say they are unsure about their future in the UK. The price of food has already risen. All of this will get worse and that's without the shortages the UK Government's own papers worry about due to ports backing up and trade agreements not being in place, not to mention Nothern Ireland and the good friday agreement/hard border issue.

This seems a good definition of thick to me

Just listened to this and it's even more complicated than I realised:

soundcloud.com/bbcradiokent/nodealbrexit-heated-debate

How on earth are we going to be able to negotiate new trade deals when:

• many countries already have trade deals with the EU and the EU has to agree with any terms they negotiate with us? (So much for us being in control!)
• we just don't have enough time!

Would love to know how this can be sorted without a massive loss of jobs in the UK - does anyone have the answer because the government doesn't.

I think if you say ‘ibelieve in Britain with all my heart’ all becomes well.

Ah crap. I've been repeating 'strong and stable'.

It’s all your fault

There was a link posted by DGR I think on a previous Westminsterenders thread, to the WTO annual report and within the 160 pages there were tables showing the trade relations between all the countries. No one trades on the 'basic' rules but from day 1 (or a few years time when we are allowed to start negotiating) the 'deals' are absolute rubbish.
There are something like 42 main trade 'groupings' where countries have organised themselves into mutually beneficial trading partners. We would be OUT of all of them.
@Kewqueue. You are obviously correct, things are very complicated.
If you have a spare week or month you can start to look at the actual details of the other 749 'agreements' that need to be renegotiated. OK some may be relatively simple but even they may take weeks to get legally recognised.
Before the vote in 2016 Jeremy Paxman in his M+S pants (and suit fortunately) had 3, 1 hour programmes explaining in a relatively simple, practical way how the EU 'worked' and showed that many of the wild claims by the 'Leave' camp were suggesting leave for reasons that have nothing to do with the EU. The Red bus, for example, The EU has no significant influence on UK Government spending allocations apart from the 'membership fee' that the countries pay to Brussels, something around £200 a person per year I believe. The EU in it's 'rebate' to the UK specifies that the rebate money should go to regeneration and areas of financial difficulty, something Westminster would not do on it's own.
It would appear that rather than watching that 'Jezza' far too many were watching 'Corrie' or whatever rather than learning about the possible fate of the UK.

Did you not know that half of Brits have a below average IQ level?
I read somewhere that the average IQ in the UK is 99.

You can blame, you can get cross, you can think we are thick, you can think it's a disaster, you can think that we don't know what we voted for.
I really don't care what you think or feel. Obviously 17 million people made a decision and that's that for good or bad.
Do you really believe that the EU doesn't need the UK? Trust me they do. They want our money as simple as that.

To just disregard all the warnings (now coming true) with no counter arguments that can be evidenced, you have to either be thick or hugely rich and being disingenuous because you think Brexit will line your pockets.

They would prefer we didn't leave, but they can't bend over backwards for us and our foot stamping or the whole project begins not to make sense.
I'm really embarrassed by this childish tantrumming the UK is doing to be honest.