Westminstenders: Summer Season

[RedToothBrush]

No its not the weather making your brain rot and stop thinking.

Thats just Brexit.

It's like the public are zombie walking into disaster.

Its exactly like that.

MissMoon, I agree with BigChoc. Unless you have no choice don't fly out just before Brexit for work. If your flights are booked for after, if there is chaos, your firm will find it difficult to send you. Remember your travel insurance will be through work - and Brexit could leave you stranded without insurance.

You might want to raise that as a concern...

it is possible that flights stop a little after Brexit, if the legal penny drops late with other countries

Its one that you can't hide the effects of as being anything other than being directly related to Brexit too.

I may be too cynical, but surely if there's an aviation meltdown this can simply be pinned on the nasty EU for not letting us cherry pick and be a member of EASA but without being subject to the ECJ.

One minute I think there'll be no deal the next I think that Barnier has said we are 80% there. Aviation must be in that 80% for the following reasons...

We cherry picked staying in EASA but the sticking point was the ECJ. We have probably already chosen, behind the scenes, to pay to stay in EASA and continue with safety regulation being under the ultimate jurisdiction of the ECJ ?

So that is one of the easier red lines to cross.( EASAier-sorry.)

Our acquiescence on this must logically be part of the 80% that has already been accepted. If so, instead of sneakily accepting the status quo it would have been better to actually front up and be open and say " Look- these bloomin' regulations, that we helped make, in areas of safety,agriculture and workers rights do Not impinge significantly on sovereignty.We retain vast unilateral sovereignty in all other areas. A shared appeal court (ie the ECJ which has U.K. judges anyway) only applies in a minor range of matters. It isn't a problem. In fact it's easier to use this shared court (with British judges) on aviation and on other matters too."

That would have been better than the ridiculous grandstanding we are leaving everything and then trying to pay to cherry pick back in approach.

I do think TMs time st the Home office has framed her whole approach. She didn't like her couple of clashes with the ECJ. Even though it was in a teeny tiny percentage of Home Office affairs.

I just read this old article that explains why she's approached things in the way she has , and also why it wouldn't/ hasn't worked. Interesting.

So I don't know how I can feel we are looking at no deal and in the next breath think aviation will be ok. Perhaps it's wishful thinking .. but then there's a lot of that about.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/27/cherry-picking-worked-theresa-may-home-office-wont-save-brexit/

I hear that a lot to mrs I find it confusing, I thought people said they want control, sovereignty, democracy and a better country? Which is great. All those things require us, the public, to be informed and actively engaging in politics not 'get on with it blindly please' and 'my head is in the sand'.

Think of it this way.

We want all of the control but none of the responsibility.

We are a nation of teenagers.

Slamming doors and professing its not fair.

Its that simple.

She didn't like her couple of clashes with the ECJ

She didn't really have many clashes with the ECJ - it was mostly with the European Court of Human Rights, which is a totally separate institution, although I often get the impression that she hasn't grasped this. In fact, she has clashes with most types of Courts, being found in contempt of court in the UK and incorrectly claiming that one person could not be deported because he had a cat [she claimed that she was 'not making this up' when of course she was].

One minute I think there'll be no deal the next I think that Barnier has said we are 80% there. Aviation must be in that 80% for the following reasons...

I thought it was just the WA that was 80% there? Which kicks everything else down the road until Dec 2020.

Also fed up of hearing “if there’s a will there’s a way, it’s all down to the EU being difficult” from my Leave voting mother. She has no idea how bad no deal would be, and thinks the sun shines out of JRM, Boris etc (and Trump ). She is very much of the hard Brexit camp, but is the proverbial well off very elderly pensioner. She’s already said to me that if it all goes tits up it won’t matter as she won’t be around to see it.

I despair at TM getting to be PM after telling (perhaps accidental) porkies. Though tbf it was slim pickings at the time.

nicer way of looking at it red i need to work on ways to get the 'teenager' leavers in my life to think it's their idea that brexit has gone wrong and it's their idea to tell their MP about it.

She is very much of the hard Brexit camp, but is the proverbial well off very elderly pensioner. She’s already said to me that if it all goes tits up it won’t matter as she won’t be around to see it.

So sorry to hear a Mum saying things like that. It must be hard loving some- one who is indifferent to your future!

I still miss my Mum a lot, but actually derive some comfort from the fact I'm certain she would have been a Leave voter.

I know she would have quoted the Daily vile at me. It would have been so difficult to listen and agree to differ. So it's one of the very few reasons that makes it ok for her not to be here. I only have FILs UKIP views and we are minimal contact anyway now.

Buteo - how can you stand it? LTB?

Maybe a short term solution for aviation is to ground all UK planes.
Then the UK could open it's RUNWAYS and flight control to allow planes that are fully legal and insures from other countries to land.
Put UK customs/immigration in portacabins (surely a reasonable insurance policy would cover those?) and fudge UK 'paperwork' to make this basic plan work. OK it is a bit of a 'roll over and play dead' technique but we may need the 'A team' before anything gets sorted.
As a thought, if Mrs May signs 'No deal' in Brussels, how will she get home if all the flights to the UK get cancelled? Take her to Rotterdam and put her in a dingy perhaps?

- it was mostly with the European Court of Human Rights

Good point Havana. However the impact of EU courts on the home office is in a teeny tiny percentage of cases. Most home office matters are entirely domestic. However I think TM holds a grudge.

I see Mrs May is off to Africa to investigate trade deals.
Maybe she should have a few minutes of 'time out' and look at Mumsnet and some of the posts on Westminsterenders by the likes of RTB and BCF and others to get some real information rather than the 'airbrushed' versions her elves are giving her.
She might be disappointed to find the Chinese have got there before her though so will have her work cut out.

Also, that she will be presenting a Bell.
Sorry we killed over 600 of your volunteer soldiers in the first world war (still in transit in safe waters) and hardly apologised for it.

Maybe a short term solution for aviation is to ground all UK planes.
Then the UK could open it's RUNWAYS and flight control to allow planes that are fully legal and insures from other countries to land

Hopefully this is another light-hearted suggestion (see the Flights thread).

Many, if not most of the flights to and from UK airports are made by foreign registered or foreign owned aircraft. BA is actually Spanish, Easyjet planes are now registered in Austria, Ryanair is Irish, TUI is German and so on.

Anyway, the issue is not just aircraft and crew certification. The airports, airport facilities (refuelling, maintenance, service trucks etc) and air traffic control in the UK are also lose their certification on 29th March, so no foreign airline will allow their aircraft to fly in, and no pilot would fly into UK airspace.

@Havanna
Yes and no.
The UK would be able to relax all it's rules so that all responsibility would fall on another country's servicing, permissions etc thus the UK would essentially provide just a landing strip and waiving whatever is necessary to allow properly certified 'others' to arrive and depart.
It would obviously have to be relatively small scale but it might allow a route for essential, time constrained importation of goods such as radioisotopes/medicines with short dates.
Yes it might be totally bonkers but then we are in 'Brexit world' and 3 years ago nobody would have thought of any of this crap, unless either 'rat arsed' or with a very intricate plan in mind.
13 miles of portaloos along the M20 is one hell of a 'freshers week' stunt!

The use of airfields would be on a par with landing strips on small islands in the Orkneys or wherever with practically no facilities.

UK would essentially provide just a landing strip and waiving whatever is necessary to allow properly certified 'others' to arrive and depart

That really sounds like the "Control" that Leavers were so "desperate" to "Take Back"

Since the "B" word is the kiss of death on other threads, it's nice to reference points made in them here ... relieves the stress.

Sometimes it's odd posts, but they can be seen with a Brexit spin ...

Currently there's a thread moaning about the life of pot herbs ... now I am no farmer by any means, but aren't we all supposed to turn into a race of green fingered agricultural wizards on the stroke of midnight 29th March 2019 ?

I see food prices are to rise "5%" due to hot weather. Thing is that is on top of the 15% rise I've noted since this time last year.

DW and I have an almost static shopping list, and besides I keep all receipts. Don't forget to translate prices to per-unit-and/or-weight, as pack sizes have changed. Although I suspect that's going to get a bit harder as the smaller pack sizes are phased out for the bigger ones only.

The UK would be able to relax all it's rules so that all responsibility would fall on another country's servicing, permissions etc thus the UK would essentially provide just a landing strip and waiving whatever is necessary to allow properly certified 'others' to arrive and depart

This would not be possible. Nobody would insure the flight or the freight. Any aircraft that is touched by an uncertified person/truck/refuelling vehicle loses its certification.

The solution would be for military aircraft to provide an airbridge for essential medicines and isotopes, as the military system is separate from the civil aviation system.

If it was me that has transgressed and used a 'non approved' word I apologise.
I realise that to continue Brexit with true dignity we should all be wearing our captains dress suit, standing to attention on deck and saluting as the good ship UK gradually slips under the waves.
On the brighter side there are alternatives however. It might involve a bit of compromise and cooperation though.

Like a sort of Berlin Airlift? Is this really what people wanted to vote for?

People's vote - don't damage corbyn.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-campaigners-eu-uk-referendum-final-say-no-deal-labout-jeremy-corbyn-a8509511.html

Personally I think corbyn is doing a fine job at damaging himself, for the many not the few my ass. But yeah I'd vote the questionably-woman-disliker in if needs be!

The solution would be for military aircraft to provide an airbridge for essential medicines and isotopes, as the military system is separate from the civil aviation system.

Will pilots have to buy their own goggles and gloves first ?

The UKs military - especially the air force - are not renowned for their surplus of kit.

Bear in mind the US insists that some RAF engines are serviced in Turkey, and their (road/rail) transport from the UK to Turkey will require EU customs licences ?

Surely for the British military to be allowed to take off and land in any other country then permissions would have to be sought from the 'other' country? At least to be able to carry 'non military' cargo.