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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
golondrina · 04/08/2018 08:49

We could control it anyway, we just didn't bother.

PestymcPestFace · 04/08/2018 08:49

Turkey is/was unlikely to join the EU. Some members are/were keen for it to join (especially us) others very much not so. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

TheElementsSong · 04/08/2018 08:58

When the vote happened Turkey joining the EU was predicted to happen in 2020.

That was a Lie. Specifically, a Lie from the Leave campaign.

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 09:10

I am so sick and tired of people saying, the vote's happened, we just need to get on with it.

The leave campaign was nothing but a combination of barefaced lies (Turkey joining the EU), undeliverable promises (£350m a week for the NHS) and meaningless slogans (take back control).

They only won by a whisker, and now two years later their lies and false promises have been utterly exposed. And they can't come up with any workable plan whatsoever.

I mean, that's the difference between campaigning for something and actually delivering it. When you're just campaigning (especially if thr campaign is badly run), you can say whatever you like. You're not constrained by reality. When you're tasked with delivering it, reality comes back to bite you on the arse.

So why are we going through with this?

It has no democratic legitimacy and in any case, it can't be done. Not without completely reinventing what "it" is. Remaining in the EU and renaming it "leaving the EU" is no more absurd than leaving the EU in a way that bears absolutely no resemblance to what people were told before they cast their votes.

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frumpety · 04/08/2018 09:12

A family of four goes to look at a used car, they take a mechanic with them, the car seems too good to be true, the mechanic inspects the car and tells the family it is a cut-and-shut and not to buy it, the seller tells the family the mechanic is lying, one member of the family decides to buy the car anyway even though it is dangerous and all the other family members have to travel in it.

^ Brexit^

Raven88 · 04/08/2018 09:13

When Obama was in power it was a possibility. He supported Turkey joining.

Of course they lied, both sides lied, that's politics. Remain said that leaving would cause WW3 and unemployment would rise.

I voted for change, we aren't the first country to leave.

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 09:18

Obama has got fuck all to do with the EU, love. He was the president of the USA, which isn't in the EU, and he was six months from the end of his second term when the referendum happened.

You're really not covering yourself in glory here.

The leave campaign lied and cheated. Repeatedly.

The remain campaign warned about the negative economic and political consequences that could happen if we left the EU, and to be honest, their warnings are starting to look pretty fucking mild now.

Open your eyes.

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Raven88 · 04/08/2018 09:22

Why are you getting so angry. I voted 2 years ago due to the information I had then. Do you really believe that America has no influence in Europe?

jasjas1973 · 04/08/2018 09:22

Of course they lied, both sides lied, that's politics. Remain said that leaving would cause WW3 and unemployment would rise

Yep i'll give you that one, Remain had a stupid campaign based on fear, instead of the positives that EU membership has given us.

Its a shame referendums are not governed by the same rules as GE's, where telling bare faced lies are not allowed.
Also the media esp TV didnt seem to challenge claims made by both sides.

But yes you re going to be getting "change"

PestymcPestFace · 04/08/2018 09:22

Raven Obama backed Turkey joining for a brief time in 2009. By the time of the referendum he did not back it and had not for over five years.

Read, inform your self. Check facts for your self. Avoid fake news.

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 09:26

I'm getting angry because you have admitted to voting leave two years ago for some pretty stupid reasons which you could have quite easily found out were stupid if you had made the slightet effort to check your facts. And because if enough people like you had bothered to check their facts rather than voting based on what someone at work or Nigel Farage said, we might not be in this shitty situation. That's why.

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jasjas1973 · 04/08/2018 09:27

For me, the scary part of the EU referendum is the Arron Banks/Cambridge Analytica and Russian involvement in targeted media campaigns.
The break up of the EU ie destabilisation of Europe, is high on the Russians agenda and that aint good for any of us.

This is something even MPs are starting to realise.

Raven88 · 04/08/2018 09:27

@PestymcPestFace He hadn't mentioned it for five years that doesn't mean he wasn't involved. Turkey was only one part of why I voted leave and at the time it was reported that Turkey could join the EU by 2020. Not I know that that's unlikely but I don't have a crystal ball to see the future do I.

littlebillie · 04/08/2018 09:29

What I do find interesting about the leavers, is they don't want to be "ruled" from EU. Most of the of most difficult rules which affect businesses (H&S and Financial disclosure) were written here, as we have the highest of standards and we applied them to the EU. We actually had massive influence over many countries and we lost it though ignorance on a YES/NO vote. Our time as a great nation is over, welcome to a decline into 2nd world living.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 04/08/2018 09:30

America is going to have a lot more influence over the UK after Brexit when we go cap in hand for a trade deal and find ourselves negotiating with Trump.

Yep, "change" is certainly coming!

Raven88 · 04/08/2018 09:32

@LoveInTokyo I thought I could trust what was reported back then obviously now corruption in the media is widely know. Do you really expect every voter to research every piece of information. Also the remain campaign looked like scare tactics.

Cobblersandhogwash · 04/08/2018 09:33

Yes. We were at the top table. Rule makers.

littlebillie · 04/08/2018 09:37

This is just comedy, bless him for his conviction to great leaver's cause

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-eu-pension-refuses-give-up-keep-britain-first-rise-far-right-a8089256.html

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 09:37

You didn't need a fucking crystal ball, Raven.

People like Nigel Farage were saying that Turkey was going to join the EU. Everyone on the remain side was saying that Turkey was definitely not joining the EU. The only way you could have missed that was if you chose to only listen to the arguments in favour of leave and not those in favour of remain.

Now, an intelligent person would have said, "Hmm, one side says Turkey is joining the EU, the other side says they're not, they can't both be right. I'd better do some research of my own before deciding who to believe."

And they would have gone on the internet and found out what actually needs to happen in order for a country to join the EU, and they would have realised just how far Turkey is from meeting the criteria for EU membership, and how many things wouod have to happen to make it possible (including all 28 current members agreeing to it, which some have said they never will). And that person would have concluded that the remain side were telling the truth and the leave side were lying.

But you didn't do any of that, you just took Nigel Farage's word for it!

Are you really expecting us to believe that you put any more thought and research into your other reasons for voting leave?

OP posts:
jasjas1973 · 04/08/2018 09:40

I thought I could trust what was reported back then obviously now corruption in the media is widely know. Do you really expect every voter to research every piece of information. Also the remain campaign looked like scare tactics

This what i dont get, a sign of intelligence is the willingness to change your mind if the facts subsequently change, you now say they have but you have'nt changed your mind? is a pride thing?

littlebillie · 04/08/2018 09:41

I'm not bothered if he likes Trump (or wanted to work with him) however keeping the pension is hilarious. £73k index linked. He can holiday away from the UK most of year while we trudge through energy cuts, food shortages and a new age of "1970s" dismal living. I think what we didn't realise properly when they had the vote that none of the "Leaver" representatives would ever be held to account for their "promises", you vote a government in and decide if we are doing a good job or not.

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 09:43

And if you genuinely believe that you shouldn't be expected to do any research before voting because you trust politicians and the media (really?!) how do you deal with the fact that different politicians and different media were saying different things? They couldn't all be telling the truth, so how did you choose which ones to believe? And how do you feel now we all know they lied to you?

Don't get angry with remoaners like me who can't let it go and move on. Get angry with the people who lied to you.

Would you really still have voted leave now you know that none of the reasons you voted leave two years ago actually stand up to scrutiny?

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Raven88 · 04/08/2018 09:44

I didn't support Farage as I said I I voted for change. The UK wasn't going great before the referendum.

Raven88 · 04/08/2018 09:46

At what point did I say I hadn't changed my view on it? I wouldn't of voted for either because it's all lies.

Moussemoose · 04/08/2018 09:46

Raven88 could I ask where you got your information from?

Also, now you have been given this information, Turkey won't join, the legislation you are concerned about is being incorrectly interpreted, would you change how you voted?

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