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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
PestymcPestFace · 02/08/2018 21:37

Stunningly enough Rosstac you could.

caroldecker · 02/08/2018 21:38

No Remainer commented on my previous post that there already is a hard border between NI and Ireland. Can't explain that away? - just ask Guiness who have to complete paperwork and pay duty every-time they send a shipment out to any EU country. The amount varies depending on which EU country they are going to. No border checks at the border does not mean no border.
Also, why satnavs.

Rosstac · 02/08/2018 21:39

LoveInTokyo itwill work. lets give it a go when we leave next March after the EU will not give us a deal, but of course that will be all the fault of the government.
why are you wasting your time If you don't live here,

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 21:41

on the card I just remember stay or leave, I must have missed the bit where its up to the public to do the elected governments work for them

Fair point.

But the government hasn't done its work, largely because the leave campaigners (most of whom aren't in the current government and so remain utterly unaccountable for anything they said) gave people totally unreasonable expectations and promised the undeliverable.

It's not up to you to deliver Brexit.

But it would be nice if some of you could at least open your eyes and recognise that the government can't deliver Brexit, or at least not the kind of Brexit that will be acceptable to anyone, and educate yourself as to why that is.

And when you've worked out why that is (basically boils down to the fact that we can't get rid of FOM and CJEU jurisdiction without fucking over Northern Ireland and completely trashing the economy), you should be standing up and saying, "Wait a second, we didn't vote to become a third world country, this is stupid and should be stopped."

now if they want to pay me a minister and MP salary ill gladly help out, cant do much worse can i.

I dunno. They keep coming up with plans that don't work and expecting a miracle. You keep coming up with plans that don't work and expecting a miracle. What's the difference?

OP posts:
Rosstac · 02/08/2018 21:42

PestymcPestFace that's the trouble with all you remainers all ways looking for problems, Not finding ways to deal with them

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 21:42

No Remainer commented on my previous post that there already is a hard border between NI and Ireland.

Because it's not true and you're talking complete bollocks Carol, that's why. You've had this pointed out to you on many other threads. It's just not worth people's time and attention.

OP posts:
PestymcPestFace · 02/08/2018 21:46

caroldecker the current border is not hard. Your source is biased, do some research publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmniaf/329/32904.htm#_idTextAnchor009 Here's as good a place as any to start, with facts.

JWIM · 02/08/2018 21:49

Rosstac how about leavers finding ways to deal with the problems that TM and her Govt have identified that need sorting for ?Brexit (whatever that is) to be a success. Why should it be those who voted remain that have to find solutions?

Rosstac · 02/08/2018 21:51

LoveInTokyo i do wish people would stop telling people what they voted for, you have no way of knowing, unfortunately people will have to see and feel it with their own eyes and pockets one way or the other to make a long term judgment on leaving the EU, that might be very hard for people to take, but you all know what's going to happen or think you do, so you have all plenty of time to get ready, its either a deal with the EU or no deal, lets see how charitable the EU are, its in their hands.

Rosstac · 02/08/2018 21:53

JWIM why is it up to the public to do the governments work ?

bellinisurge · 02/08/2018 21:54

@Rosstac - I don't need to look for problems. They are showing up all on their own.

Cobblersandhogwash · 02/08/2018 21:58

@rosstac, why on earth should the EU be in any way charitable?

Are you preparing for a no deal Brexit? Do you have champagne at the ready?

PestymcPestFace · 02/08/2018 21:59

ec.europa.eu/commission/news/ambitious-partnership-uk-after-brexit-2018-aug-02_en the EU's stance, today.

Cobblersandhogwash · 02/08/2018 21:59

And if it's in the EU's hands, how is that taking back control in any way?

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 22:10

i do wish people would stop telling people what they voted for, you have no way of knowing

  1. It goes both ways. I am sick and tired of hearing that we must leave the single market and customs union when that wasn’t on the frigging ballot paper so you have no idea how many people thought they were voting for that, and in any case we can’t do it without breaking our obligations under a pre-existing international treaty which was voted for in a referendum by the people of Northern Ireland.
  1. If people did vote for us to become a third world country then they are fucking morons who should not be listened to.
OP posts:
JWIM · 02/08/2018 22:12

I was merely quoting your words back at you Rosstac. Why should those who voted remain come up with solutions?

Walkingdeadfangirl · 02/08/2018 23:17

The difference now is time has nearly run out

But time hasn't run out yet and as with most deals the die is cast at one minute to midnight. I wonder if that is why Macron has invited Theresa around for a chat during the holidays?

No fat ladies are singing yet, just pause your hysteria.

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 23:22

So if you expect the negotiations to be finished a minute before the deadline, I guess all that stuff about parliament having a “meaningful vote” was a load of bollocks then, wasn’t it?

And it won’t help businesses who need to know whether they need to relocate all or part of their operations out of the UK, will it? They’ll just have to assume the worst and put their contingency plans into action, won’t they? Of course, it’ll be such a shame if a deal is done at the last minute and it was all for nothing. But what’s done will be done by then. And any jobs lost as a result will not come back.

This is crazy talk.

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 02/08/2018 23:55

Yes I know a lot of people who expect the deal to be done at the last possible moment (or day).

That is how and when deals are done. The meaningful vote is nonsense, you just cant have one why making a deal, it was always a remoaner failed attempt to stop Brexit.

It wont help businesses, but they will cope, they never like change but are quite good at adapting to new realities.

Why is this crazy? Its how the world works.

caroldecker · 03/08/2018 00:33

Lovein
EU goods in duty suspension that cross the border are typically goods that are subject to excise controls and duties, such as fuel, alcohol and tobacco. Under EU legislation, excise duties are paid at the final point of consumption so, while in transit to this destination, there are strict rules governing the movement of such goods. At the moment, both the UK and Ireland must use the EU-wide electronic system, the Excise Movement Control System (EMCS), to monitor the movement of these goods in real time at every stage of transit through an electronic Administrative Document (eAD).
No reason this process cannot be extended.

caroldecker · 03/08/2018 00:37

Still no answer to your satnav failing

caroldecker · 03/08/2018 01:04

satnavs currently use the US version because the Gallileo system is not up and running.
Unless the US turns theirs off, no issues. nothing to do with Brexit.
There is also a big issue with Gallileo if not able to access Birtish overseas territories.

Jason118 · 03/08/2018 01:15

Excellent news - something at least will work after Brexit. As a country we may not know where we are heading, but individually we all willSmileSmileSmile

caroldecker · 03/08/2018 01:27

My point is that most of the remainers spout bollocks. Lovein said earlier the EU was designed to help small countries negotiate trade deals - absolute tosh.
Not on this thread, but Churchill was in favour of the EU - totally true, but not for the UK. He saw a united Europe, the British Empire and the US as the great trading nations against Russia and China. Not a great view, but not in favour of remain.
I would trust the ranters more if they knew what they were talking about and engaged.
Lovetokyo says my point about duty border has been rubbished on previous threads - I am not aware of this, so perhaps she would post the points on here.